squirrel64
Registered User
One question, what exactly is the measurement for
1st post and question about rear gears
- Thread starter squirrel64
- Start date
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Ooh, I want that front axle. Well, and transfer case. Air brakes?
The measurement in the picture is the one I mentioned as #1 a few posts ago, the distance between the shaft centerline and cab floor. Since I used an auto crossmember and mount I had to adjust their height, which in turn changes the angle of the entire driveline. I needed a ballpark height there so I can measure driveshaft length for shortening and at the same time get an idea for the angle so that I can see where my rear axle pinion angle falls in comparison.
You won't have to worry about pinion angle since you're not doing anything to the rear axle. And if you can get your hands on that 4x4 crossmember and mount, you won't have to worry about the height measurement either... Actually, I got an idea - if you have a Harbor Freight store near you, stop by and grab one of these cheap mag-base angle finders: http://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html Stick it on the driveshaft near its transmission end and see what angle it shows you, then remember that angle and/or write it down. When you get the new trans and case in, bolt up whatever crossmember and mount you have available, measure driveshaft and have it shortened accordingly, then hook it up to transfer case and stick the angle finder on it and see where you stand. From that point lowering the crossmember and mount will usually flatten the driveshaft (angle finder will read closer to 0 degrees), while raising it will tilt shaft more.
Since essentially you only need that height measurement to match driveshaft angle, it's better to know initial shaft angle before you do anything, then when done you'll know you got it right no matter what height measurements may be. Case in point my height at the crossmember is noticeably lower than what I saw on junkyard trucks running that trans and case, but with my springs and lift blocks the angles worked out good there so she stays 2" below the rails regardless of how the factory would have done it.
The measurement in the picture is the one I mentioned as #1 a few posts ago, the distance between the shaft centerline and cab floor. Since I used an auto crossmember and mount I had to adjust their height, which in turn changes the angle of the entire driveline. I needed a ballpark height there so I can measure driveshaft length for shortening and at the same time get an idea for the angle so that I can see where my rear axle pinion angle falls in comparison.
You won't have to worry about pinion angle since you're not doing anything to the rear axle. And if you can get your hands on that 4x4 crossmember and mount, you won't have to worry about the height measurement either... Actually, I got an idea - if you have a Harbor Freight store near you, stop by and grab one of these cheap mag-base angle finders: http://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html Stick it on the driveshaft near its transmission end and see what angle it shows you, then remember that angle and/or write it down. When you get the new trans and case in, bolt up whatever crossmember and mount you have available, measure driveshaft and have it shortened accordingly, then hook it up to transfer case and stick the angle finder on it and see where you stand. From that point lowering the crossmember and mount will usually flatten the driveshaft (angle finder will read closer to 0 degrees), while raising it will tilt shaft more.
Since essentially you only need that height measurement to match driveshaft angle, it's better to know initial shaft angle before you do anything, then when done you'll know you got it right no matter what height measurements may be. Case in point my height at the crossmember is noticeably lower than what I saw on junkyard trucks running that trans and case, but with my springs and lift blocks the angles worked out good there so she stays 2" below the rails regardless of how the factory would have done it.
squirrel64
Registered User
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Ugh, that's a big problem! I've no clue how a PTO can be squeezed on the right side of the trans cause that's where the exhaust is, at least on my truck there is no way in heck it would clear. So unless you wanna do major fab works, I'd say the PTO has to stay on the left. Which automatically rules out any Ford 4x4 trans cause the PTO shaft will run straight into the transfer case. The only Ford 4-speed that I'm aware of has a driver-side PTO port is the T19, so what you have now. BUT, there is still hope - T19s found behind gasoline engines have lower 1st gear, it will be either 6.36 or 5.11 ratio. Reverse will also be slightly lower than what you're working with now, so that's a good thing too.
So now it seems you're looking for a 2wd T19 out of a '70s gasser truck... Shame that NP435 couldn't work for you, would have been quite nice for getting the loads moving. But again, a creeper gear T19 will get that job done just as well. Just a matter of finding one. Overall ratio even with the 5.11 first will be 18.14, so still better than the 16.56 you'll be at if you leave the current trans alone and just replace axle instead. And obviously much better than the 14.27 you run right now.
So now it seems you're looking for a 2wd T19 out of a '70s gasser truck... Shame that NP435 couldn't work for you, would have been quite nice for getting the loads moving. But again, a creeper gear T19 will get that job done just as well. Just a matter of finding one. Overall ratio even with the 5.11 first will be 18.14, so still better than the 16.56 you'll be at if you leave the current trans alone and just replace axle instead. And obviously much better than the 14.27 you run right now.
Bashby
Full Access Member
How about running the pto off of the transfer case? I know some of the BW1356 had provisions for a pto.
squirrel64
Registered User
Yeah it's been raining here since last night. Sorry I couldn't get some pics earlier. Ok, so I will start the hunt again. Thanks for all ur help
79jasper
Chickenhawk
Personally, I still like the idea of rear gear change, then later on a zf swap if he needs more highway. IMO
lindstromjd
Black Sheep
I think that everyone who suggests changing out transmissions is missing the poińt that the OP said he doesn't care about mileage or speed... He just wants to stop burning up his clutches. A better gear set will fix that problem and not mess with any of his other systems like his pto and bed.
79jasper
Chickenhawk
I got that too, just figured I'd throw the zf part in just in case. That's why I said he could add it later if needed.
Honestly a truck with that much load doesn't need to be going much over 45mph anyways. Most of the driving will be low speed.
If the OP as I posted and as LCAM posted swapped in a GASSER T19 from behind a 460 say, he would have lower first gear, PTO would bolt up correctly and a whole lot less problem doing a transmission swap than a gear set and redoing and setting up gears. JMHO
I'd personally go with a gas T19 as I think in my original post I questioned if there was a PTO or not.
Thus he has lower gears and nothing else changes.
So
Gasser T19 2wd or get a PTO for a NP 205 oh, btw I have one sitting here! attached to a married 205. They are around they can be found and are well worth the investment.
JM2CW
squirrel64
Registered User
Yeah I think I might just back with the rear I was gonna buy. I'll get that and a new clutch in and if I don't like that setup, I'll sell the truck. I've dealt with a lot of other problems with this truck and this is the last straw. With just a new clutch it would make a great truck for someone not hauling that much or towing much. But the way it is just doesn't suit my needs. I really should have a more heavy duty truck but not really being able to swing that right now I just thought I could upgrade this one to get me by.
I really appreciate all the input and hopefully this will work ok for me but in the meantime if something else might work I'm willing to try
I really appreciate all the input and hopefully this will work ok for me but in the meantime if something else might work I'm willing to try
There is a thread in another forum I haunt where the guy wants to buy a PTO setup for his t19, but he needs to know the type of t19, apparently there where 3 different ones with different ratios offered. He didn't say(may not know) but I am thinking this matters because the gear the PTO runs against is a different size depending on the ratios in the tranny. Is this correct? Pretending the original poster did get a gasser tranny, would his old PTO have bolted up?
squirrel64
Registered User
hi franklin, Maybe the worksheet on this site will help. Worth a shothttp://www.ptohydraulics.com/ptosheet.htm
I can look at my model # and give you that if it will help
These are the three ratio combos I've found
4.02,2.41,1.41,1.00
5.11,3.03,1.79,1.00
6.32,3.09,1.68,1.00
I can look at my model # and give you that if it will help
These are the three ratio combos I've found
4.02,2.41,1.41,1.00
5.11,3.03,1.79,1.00
6.32,3.09,1.68,1.00
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LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
And of these three you most likely have the first one, as it was the standard issue behind diesel engines. Interesting question about the PTO gear size tho, I'd like to hear more about it as well if someone has solid info on that.
If you're swapping axles, there are two things to be aware of:
1) Make sure the axle is coming from a cab-chassis dually, if it was under a dually with a pickup bed then its spring perches will be both too wide and spread too far apart to mate to your springs.
2) Make sure you get new spring U-bolts for it, U-bolts have rolled threads that deform as the nuts are torqued down and thus are one-time-use items. Upgrade to 5/8" diameter U-bolts and get them in Grade 8, only runs about $50-60 total for the two pairs and it's a good peace of mind.
If you're swapping axles, there are two things to be aware of:
1) Make sure the axle is coming from a cab-chassis dually, if it was under a dually with a pickup bed then its spring perches will be both too wide and spread too far apart to mate to your springs.
2) Make sure you get new spring U-bolts for it, U-bolts have rolled threads that deform as the nuts are torqued down and thus are one-time-use items. Upgrade to 5/8" diameter U-bolts and get them in Grade 8, only runs about $50-60 total for the two pairs and it's a good peace of mind.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
OK, now you got my attention - how does this PTO attach to the 205, any chance you can snap some pics of that critter as it's hanging off your 205 now?
