WMO as engine oil

[Zaggnutt]

Just finished this....
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/
These studies speak for themselves.
After lots of reading and some research I'm seeing frame rail mounted centrifuges that will remove contaminants that have been running on buses and rigs for a while. That coupled with the study results without a centrifuge or any additional filtering I am thinking oil changes may be a lot less necessary than I thought. I will keep digging, but I think I found my answer.

 

[Zaggnutt]

For a question like this, I'd recommend bobistheoilguy.com as they have a huge knowledge base and likely have petroleum engineers that can definitively answer the question.

Thanks again for the site. It has already answered many questions along with contributions from all of you. Thank you!

 

[The FNG]

The toilet paper filter mentioned earlier is the Amsoil bypass filter that Javier has, I believe (or very close to). He's an Amsoil rep, which may be another option for you since it would allow you to extend your intervals also. I'm not sure if F250truckin has chimed in yet, but I think he is the one who sent his filtered/centrifuged oil in to get tests done. He reported that the oil came back as good for lube oil. I'm not sure id try it, but I don't think it would hurt to extend the use of the oil. You would have to keep close tabs on it to make sure you weren't over-using it. Maybe if you changed it every 3-5k and filtered/centrifuged it and then used it for another 3-5k and then filtered/centrifuged it and burned it for fuel. I think that would be fine. I would definitely go for some oil samples before reusing the oil, though. And you would want to be careful about mixing batches from rigs that have already had used oil in them, etc. I'm sure there are holes in my flawed thinking, but there it is.

 

[Josh Carmack]

Look, I obviously don't put much thought into crank oil, As I stated earlier Oil does not wear out. Yes, it's weight qualities do change as the additives evaporate and burn etc, but the base oil does not wear out. There are large engines in HEAVY service that don't see oil changes, they get oil check ups, the proper additives are restored. In my wife's car that saw over 60,000 before an oil change, the oil was dirty, but no thicker than the new oil that replaced it. My Mother/Father had an old Datsun 510 wagon that we used hauling fertilizer feed and seed for years, we drove it hard, put it up wet, and it made 612,000 miles before my sister totaled the front end. Know how many times we changed the oil in that car? Less than TEN. Thats not an exaggeration, or a lie, I'm 100 percent sure it got more oil changes in it's first 28,000 miles before my mother bought it as her daily commuter 120 miles one way, than it ever did once Mom and Dad owned it. I bought my wife a new (to us) Nissan mini van back in 2010, at 64,000 miles, it now has 126,000. It got ONE, thats right ONE oil change since we have owned it, and that was just about a month or so ago. I believe very little of the hype placed on engine oil, and nothing said will convince me otherwise. I have seen too many engine in hard use amongst my family not get oil changes and happily purr along. People at work think I'm nuts, but I'M HONEST, it do not change my engine oil until it is at around ten times the recommended replacement point. Change the filter every 15K to 20K to keep it from going into bypass mode and let errr rip!

 

[Zaggnutt]

Look, I obviously don't put much thought into crank oil, As I stated earlier Oil does not wear out. Yes, it's weight qualities do change as the additives evaporate and burn etc, but the base oil does not wear out. There are large engines in HEAVY service that don't see oil changes, they get oil check ups, the proper additives are restored. In my wife's car that saw over 60,000 before an oil change, the oil was dirty, but no thicker than the new oil that replaced it. My Mother/Father had an old Datsun 510 wagon that we used hauling fertilizer feed and seed for years, we drove it hard, put it up wet, and it made 612,000 miles before my sister totaled the front end. Know how many times we changed the oil in that car? Less than TEN. Thats not an exaggeration, or a lie, I'm 100 percent sure it got more oil changes in it's first 28,000 miles before my mother bought it as her daily commuter 120 miles one way, than it ever did once Mom and Dad owned it. I bought my wife a new (to us) Nissan mini van back in 2010, at 64,000 miles, it now has 126,000. It got ONE, thats right ONE oil change since we have owned it, and that was just about a month or so ago. I believe very little of the hype placed on engine oil, and nothing said will convince me otherwise. I have seen too many engine in hard use amongst my family not get oil changes and happily purr along. People at work think I'm nuts, but I'M HONEST, it do not change my engine oil until it is at around ten times the recommended replacement point. Change the filter every 15K to 20K to keep it from going into bypass mode and let errr rip!

Yep. I agree that it is like many things in our society... big money = big bs. I was reading idiabuse's thread on oil changes. I lean a little more towards the data collection to corroborate change intervals, but we are definitely changing too often.

I didn't mean to start a debate on the whole thing. I was mainly concerned with using WMO for lubricant as well as fuel. Definitely answered that, but found a lot of good info in addition. Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

Then on the other side of the coin... I personally know of two people who have replaced engines due to NEVER changing the oil.

One was a 19yr old kid... his dad bought him a mustang for his 16th bday... 0 miles. 65k miles later, the engine seized as the oil in the crank case had all but burnt off and what little was left in the bottom of the pan was just a caramel that had to be scraped out with a putty knife.

#2 was a trailblazer with the inline 5 cylinder... 98k miles... 1 owner... NEVER changed/checked the oil... engine seized. Again, oil that was remaining in the pan was more like tar then oil. It was so thick the oil pump couldn't pump it anymore.

Now.. with that being said, I personally choose to run a full synthetic in everything I own and push them a little further then some would... 5k+ on the gas burners.. 10k+ on the diesel. I'm one that leans towards an oil change is cheaper then an overhaul any day of the week... plus the used oil just goes into my fuel tank... so its not hurting me at all. Lol

On another note, I do know of several people that push them quite a bit further... A friend of mine has an old Nissan hard body with 400k on the clock... runs some type of synthetic.. changes the filter every 10-15k... changes the oil every 30k or so.. little gas twin spark plug 4cyl.. doesn't use a drop of oil and he drives it 100+ miles a day... hits the key and lets out on the clutch... doesn't even give it time to kick the dummy light off. He said he was gonna park it at 300k... that was 100k miles ago and its still chugging right along.

-Chris

 

[Zaggnutt]

Then on the other side of the coin... I personally know of two people who have replaced engines due to NEVER changing the oil.
One was a 19yr old kid... his dad bought him a mustang for his 16th bday... 0 miles. 65k miles later, the engine seized as the oil in the crank case had all but burnt off and what little was left in the bottom of the pan was just a caramel that had to be scraped out with a putty knife.

#2 was a trailblazer with the inline 5 cylinder... 98k miles... 1 owner... NEVER changed/checked the oil... engine seized. Again, oil that was remaining in the pan was more like tar then oil. It was so thick the oil pump couldn't pump it anymore.
-Chris

Yeah, and that was why I had mentioned "data collection" side of things. The main thing here is extending changes not checks. System checks should be increased to head off problems.

 

[mohavewolfpup]

Additives have been around since the 1930s and have been in widespread use since the 40's/50's. The additives give the oil a significant part of it's lubricating ability, straight oil by itself isn't nearly as good as modified oil. The concept to understand is that cleaning the oil is only a small part of the battle, you also have to replace the content of the oil that has been "used up" if you're dealing with a modern engine that calls for oil with specific ratings.

And yes, oil definitely breaks down faster as it gets more hours on it, it actually starts to thicken and sludge up and what may have been 15W40 creeps up and you might end up with 30W70. From personal experience, I've seen big rigs show low oil pressure when the oil has been in too long, it's because it thickens up to the point that it'll barely pump and that definitely can't be good for bearings and surfaces.

I know this is a old post, but what the heck. I had a 6.5 diesel once that I had to drive 90 miles for and drain the oil. Unbolt the oil pan bolt, and.... err? where is it....

After blasting the **** out of it with a 1500 watt heat gun, there it comes! sort of... Was thick tar. 15w40 rotella if memory serves me right. Had been idled and idled, person was paranoid of it dying on them. After getting out what I could, dumped a bunch of 5w40 rotella in it, slowly turned it over, and got it to catch. Then told them to go drive the holy **** out of it. Came back, dumped the (now proper) oil and gave it some new oil.

Never seen oil like that before... Hope to never see it again!

 

[Zaggnutt]

I know this is a old post, but what the heck. I had a 6.5 diesel once that I had to drive 90 miles for and drain the oil. Unbolt the oil pan bolt, and.... err? where is it....

After blasting the **** out of it with a 1500 watt heat gun, there it comes! sort of... Was thick tar. 15w40 rotella if memory serves me right. Had been idled and idled, person was paranoid of it dying on them. After getting out what I could, dumped a bunch of 5w40 rotella in it, slowly turned it over, and got it to catch. Then told them to go drive the holy **** out of it. Came back, dumped the (now proper) oil and gave it some new oil.

Never seen oil like that before... Hope to never see it again!

Wow. That's impressive.... I have an 04 Pathfinder that I run out of oil a few times a year. The engines Nissan was putting into their cars and SUVs during the late 90's 2000's have an issue where the oil gets sucked up into baffles in the valve covers and stuck there. I've had the thing for 3 years and I pay attention so I can usually tell when it's getting low by how it runs and the heat at idle, but it's caught me a couple times.

Anyway, I've read several threads of people who have ruined the engines in their Nissan because of this problem. The oil light typically doesn't come on. If you are REALLY paying attention it will flash for a second right after ignition, but it never comes on at any other time. Just an FYI, I am no mechanic so I can't explain the "oil stuck in the valve cover baffles". I am simply repeating the explanation given by numerous forum members on the Nissan sites I was in diagnosing the problem. The consensus is that it is passed through the EGR valve in the cover and through the exhaust.

 

[Armo]

When I used to be heavy into the know howof oils my recollection is fuel dilution is the main cause of needing an oil change. Sludge from just breaking the oil down from heat or moisture was second 3rd was any preservation additives being depleted. When higher sulfur diesel was sold oil needed a bit more additive to keep the sulphuric acid at bay. I personally wouldn't reuse it in a motor but on equipment chains and chainsaws I have had good luck with it filtered.