Where to mount electric pump

[DesertBen44]

So I have seen a few pictures of IDIs with electric pumps mounted behind the battery on the passenger side, and would like to stick with that theme.

Trouble is none of these pictures have the jack mounted or the vacuum canister in that area like my truck does, leaving me with limited pump mounting real estate.

Anyone have pics of a pump mounted WITH those devices still there?

Or a i doomed to have to get rid of/relocate them?

Also, I dont have a welder, a vise, or any method of creating a custom bracket, so I went to home depot and bought a couple pieces of galvanized steel brackets for building decks. Using one or all of them im sure it wont be a problem creating something, just trying to figure out where it should go.

Any input would be appreciated

 

[Diesel_brad]

Why not mount it on the frame rail in front of the fuel selector valve like modern trucks

 

[DesertBen44]

Supposedly these pumps suck better then they blow, so was hoping on putting it right near the filter housing, that is a possibility though.

 

[RLDSL]

if it's a Facet Dura Lift ( Carrier pump) then up under teh hood is a great spot. My first bracket was a simple chunk of 4x6" aluminum angle from the scrap yard that i got a big stick of for a couple of bucks , with a few holes drilled in it ( I like keeping a few chunks of various size structural aluminum around for projects like that, it drills easily and doen't weigh a lot, but it's very strong) I bolted it directly to the inner fender and used large fender washers on the tire side to keep the bolts from pullling through .

 

[DesertBen44]

Yea aluminum sure would be more fun to work with then this steel. I'm thinking of just getting this jack the hell out of here cause I don't think i have enough room with it there.

 

[Tim4]

Yea aluminum sure would be more fun to work with then this steel. I'm thinking of just getting this jack the hell out of here cause I don't think i have enough room with it there.

Flat plate, cut with a 4" angle grinder. Bends created with hammer using the trailer hitch as an anvil. Stone driveway. Middle of winter. No fancy tools needed.

Jack and other accessories in place. I'll try for a pic later today.

 

[G.W BUFFALO]

Here's how i did mine, mounted it using a bracket i found at tractor supplie. The bracket is for a garage door roller, worked perfect.

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[lotzagoodstuff]

Nice bracket! The only thing you could think about is whether or not you can access the filter bowl, however, if you are filtering (or not running) any "fuel additives" you probably don't need to access the bowl very often, and after all it looks like just two bolts.

In any case, I like a nice bracket that "just works" with little or no fabrication, thanks for posting as I am going to look for one this weekend

 

[CaptTom]

Supposedly these pumps suck better then they blow, so was hoping on putting it right near the filter housing, that is a possibility though.

Well.... here's a continuation of my Purolator rant I guess.

I was going to start a new thread of my recent install, but will do it here instead.

First off, I'd made an assumption these pumps were centrifugal based on inlet/outlet positions. However, the outlet is centered on the pump instead of on the side. Once the pump was running, I've guesstimated these are eccentric pumps.... basically a gear pump more along the lines of a rotary pump. I'm still guessing because there is no pump "type" description on any literature I've looked at.

Although many here have installed these pumps as puller pumps, they're rated to 10' of lift, Purolator themselves indicate they are "pusher" pumps on their FAQ's page.

Eccentric pumps are pushers too, not that they can't pull, it is their job to push fluids. Optimum performance for the pump.

What this means is, rail mounting is the best position for this pump, especially if one intends to add more filters in line.

Gandolf installed his on the rail with some coaching from Agnem. After reading as much as I could about the Purolator Dura-Lifts, including some failures and less than 100% fill of the pump mounted filter when installed further upstream, rail mounting is indeed the best location and I followed suit.

The pump was installed appx. 12" for the fuel tank selector. I used holes in the rail already there, mounted it to a jerry rigged u-channel( 2 90's bolted together), grounded in a free hole in the frame next to the pump, with a single 10ga hot lead to the GP relay ignition on/off.

The results were amazing.

Once I applied power, it took less than 15 seconds to fill the pump filter bowl and bleed my drained supply lines, until it literally shot out the main filter Schrader valve. When I started the truck, it started faster than off my mechanical pump, and this was first roll after severe air intrusion by working on the system.

On a test run, remember my mechanical lift pump was going bad-figured out all the excess fuel was coming from the pump's fuel dump(the safety feature on the factory lift to prevent fuel from filling the oil sump), my rpm's went down 150 at 55mph, and at 65mph my rpm's were only 100-200rpm's more than at 55.

Result's:

55mph- 1900rpm's
65mph- 2100rpm's
75mph- 2500rpm's


Since my mechanical pump was bad at purchase-although working- I have nothing to compare with in a healthy system, however, I can tell you what I was reading on a quasi-compromised system:

55mph- 2100rpm's
65mph- 2400rpm's
75mph- 2800rpm's

Add to this, the power output was much closer to neck bending. Punching it from a dead stop, the tire's almost broke free. There was that little skid sound for a half second before inertia didn't allow for more rubber to burn, although my tires are also brand new, maximum grab.

At my next top off of fuel, I'll start calculating my burn rate. At first, I was getting 16mpg's when I bought the truck, however, as the mechanical started giving up, it decreased to 14.5mpg.


I can only say this in conclusion, when you spend the time to research the pump itself, you can only come to the conclusion these are pusher pumps with some ability to pull. Optimum performance is as a pusher. Even burning other than diesel, such as WMO/WVO, it will work far better, possibly diluting less if mounted as a pusher pump.

No matter what pump is used for fluids, eccentric, circulating, diaphragm, vane, sliding vane....whatever, they all perform best closer to their source than further away.

Why do you think manufacturers now place lift pumps submerged in the fuel tank??

They perform better closer to the source. We only mount them outside for convenience.

I know, I know, we've all got opinions on where to mount, our own convenience desires and where we've already placed them.

For maximum performance of the pump, rail mounting is the best option because these are really pushers, not pullers.

 

[hesutton]

The only time I've read about problems with these pumps is when they were mounted under the hood. I've got my Dura-lift on the frame rail infront of the tank selector valve. No issues so far.

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Heath

 

[DesertBen44]

Thanks for all the responses! all helpful!
The bracket from tractor supply looks great, wish the nearest one to me wasnt in New Mexico!

That was a good rant though, with the pump being solid state no contacts no diaphragms i didnt even really think about HOW the pump moved the fuel. I was under the impression the dura lift pumps prefer to suck, looks like maybe that is not the case. Even though i just wasted lots of thinking and time building up this bracket I think Before i start installing This the frame rail mount is definently worth exploring further; Thankyou Brad heath and Tom.

Anyhow I built a bracket with pieces of galvanized steel from home depot meant for building decks, cost about 5 dollars total. I just layed down the worst paint job known to man on it, ill post pics when its dry later.

 

[Full Monte]

I'm not aware of any pumps that do better sucking than pushing...except maybe a vacuum pump whose sole purpose is sucking. Almost all fluid pumps do better when the intake is not restricted and they are placed below the level of the fluid they are pumping. The only disadvantage to having the pump on a frame rail is the danger of something hitting it, like a piece of a tire that gator-skins on you.

 

[CaptTom]

I'm not aware of any pumps that do better sucking than pushing...except maybe a vacuum pump whose sole purpose is sucking. Almost all fluid pumps do better when the intake is not restricted and they are placed below the level of the fluid they are pumping. The only disadvantage to having the pump on a frame rail is the danger of something hitting it, like a piece of a tire that gator-skins on you.

Vacuum pumps are also limited by lift and requires more air than fluid to properly operate.

The concern over being struck by flying objects is very real for these Dura-Lifts. I'm guilty of not installing a "pre-striker" in front of it..... yet!

This will be installed later, hopefully not too later if you get my drift.

I really like Sutton's bracket for the rail. It's higher than the one I installed, although I could probably do a 180 on it and get it 1/2" higher. His is taking advantage of the top of his rail, while mine is centered on the rail. Less chance for his to hit debris. Mine hangs about 1" below the rail, but is spaced off the rail far enough to get my fingers around the filter housing without taking off skin....Sutton's looks like it will do the same with superior protection from road stones in comparison.

I put mine inside the rail for a couple of reasons, the first is road stones, the truck may absorb more of these on the inside due to all the other hanging stuff form the factory, plus my Tranny pan is much lower than others. Second, it's less obvious to the on looker, potential thief and whatever other cretin may seek foul play upon the system..... I know.... ....paranoia! Third, all the hoses and wiring take advantage of their existing placement, and I used some of the wire runs to feed my own wire. Nothing crosses a sharp or hot edge. Fourth, tires and their debris are mostly outside the rail, not inside.

As Full Monte suggests, a pump naturally fed by gravity will work better than one which must lift to feed itself. Center rail puts the "INPUT" fitting appx. 1" below the selector valve. Although not totally positive gravity, it has nearly zero lift to make the pump use 99% of its rate pump ability to pumping, not priming. The 1% loss is my WAG on hose/valve restriction.... not necessarily fact.

The hardest part of this entire install was unclipping the 3/8 hose mount from the selector valve. Took me nearly 20 minutes to work it free without busting a nail or breaking the aged clip. My 3/8 A1 rated marine grade hose fit perfectly on that and the steel line about 30" ahead of the pump. Since the fit was so good and tight, I used the steel line on the rail. Saved $20.00 in hose doing that. The next hardest part was sliding the rubber hose onto steel line just inside the fender well. It points at the engine and is pretty tight. I made sure there was a hose loop to insure no hose pinches as it transitioned up to the fuel filter(like factory to the mechanical pump), where I had to put a 3/8 brass nippled 90*.... sorry, I stole the idea from someone else whose name is escaping me at the moment on this board. The only dilemma with that 90 is, the threads on my fitting were kind of short to fully seat into the FF housing. I couldn't tighten it like I wanted because it hit the stabilizing bracket, and if I did get it tighter, my hose is so fat walled, it wouldn't have slid with hose clamp onto the nipple.


Basically, the whole system idea is stolen from everyone here. I tried to use the best stuff from everyone, eliminating possible failures in other systems described, while like everyone who does something, made my own compromises- hopefully pointing out where they may lie in my own system.


True Confessions:

On the final hook up to the GP relay, I busted the freakin ignition wire bolt right out of the housing! But got lucky and the internal wire didn't break, so relay is still functional for today.... new on order. Even if the GPR blows up, the ignition wire is still connected to the pump by two nuts clamping them together- bottom/top. I wire tied them so the vibration wouldn't shake them too far away to snap off that thin little ******, or that they'd ground to something else.

To satisfy your own ideas and suspicions, I'd look at the different photo's of installs, as well as read the FAQ's page on Purolator to get the best ideas for your system, then put it together.

So far, only a day into it, and I'm convinced it will be one of the best things to do to this truck. GenLighting has a great deal for you to take advantage of, just take the puller system with a grain of salt, it works, it's rated to, but in the searches of the systems, look closely at the ones with problems... I think you'll agree.

Have fun!!

 

[hesutton]

Thanks CaptTom. I will also put a "sheild" in front of the pump, just in case.

I cut a slit in the factory hose leaving the FSV and pulled it of off the factory barb and left the connector on the FSV. I put 3/8 Gates fuel hose from that barbed fitting on the FSV to the inlet of the pump, and from the pump to the hard line that crosses under the engine. I tossed the factory nylon (or whatever it is) line in the trash.

Heath

 

[CaptTom]

Thanks CaptTom. I will also put a "sheild" in front of the pump, just in case.

I cut a slit in the factory hose leaving the FSV and pulled of off the factory barb and left the connector on the FSV. I put 3/8 Gates fuel hose from that barbed fitting on the FSV to the inlet of the pump, and from the pump to the hard line that crosses under the engine. I tossed the factory nylon (or whatever it is) line in the trash.

Heath

Cheater!!!!!

I disconnected the FSV from the rail, which allowed me to twist the assembly to greater advantage. Still, it only left a single hand to manipulate that little bastreed! Once the clip is out, the fitting almost falls off.

The reason I didn't cut or "slit" it off the barb is because I'm heavy handed. I would've either broken the barb off, or cut too deeply into the plastic, potentially causing an air leak.... I hate air leaks!!! To those who've never touched the FSV, the barbed fittings will also rotate when they're clipped in. Pushing a blade against the nylon hose will push the thing until it rests on the frame.... slippage could be a problem.

A side note to cutting off the factory hose, use a very sharp blade, lightly, taking several shallow cuts through the plastic hose. As soon as you get one end going, it will almost fall of by prying the cut with a flat head screw driver. Doing multi-cuts will help from marring the plastic barb..... and yeeeeeeees, no matter how many of you have cut the sheesh outta these barbs.... I've done rework on other mechanics jobs who jammed through hose barbs and slightly marred bronze fittings enough to leak. Amazing what a tiny little knife line will do sometimes.

Besides, holding the barb in my hand gave me a great visual on hose fit/ length, also allowed me to get a proper hose clamp tightening. Re-installing the clip was easy sneezie, even with the hose on it.

Back to that clip. Success came when I figured out, if I pushed on the two ends protruding past the fitting- in the locked position- one at a time, the clip came out easier than trying to shove a dirty fingernail under the high side of the clip and pulling it out all at once. If I somehow got a flat head or something in between the clip and fitting, I think I would've snapped the clip off too.

Either way you do it, if you eff it up.... it'll be a total bummer to replace!

The rest of the install is a cake walk.

Oh! And have something to drain the lines into, you will get wet otherwise. I also parked my truck slightly uphill so as to avoid the "hydraulic idiot effect". Yes, that's a real term. Also known as HIE.

Proper usage of the term HIE:

HIE, I'm here to give you a shower AND empty your fuel tank at great expense and embarrassment to you!

Or:

HIE! Do your armpits burn yet?

Park downhill and you'll get it.