Water Methanol?

[88 Ford]

For those of you that have run water methanol, what are the pros and cons for the IDI? Have you had any issues? Also have you seen corrosion on your engine anywhere?

 

[aggiediesel01]

I guess people aren't really doing this much anymore but years ago someone put together a tech article with a parts list and diagram on what to do if you want to try. Biggest expense is buying a quality pump that'll stand up to methanol. That'll set you back $75-150 at least otherwise the parts are fairly cheap. My only concern with the proposed system here is that the nozzle is installed from inside the intake hat which to me means there's a possibility it could come lose and pass through the intake with obliviously catastrophic results. I'd make sure to find a way to keep that from happening just in case.

The Splash Water/Methanol injection system

Want more performance for your diesel? An easy water injection system has been developed and documented by Rob Fox of Colorado. Many thanks to Rob (F350Camper) for his work on this project performed on his truck called the Blizzard. Splash Water/Methanol Injection System ;Sweet

www.oilburners.net

 

[ISPKI]

I have heard of people using a spare windshield sprayer system for the pump and holding tank which would all be made to hold up to the methanol/water mixture (obviously). The concern I have is, what happens if the pump gets stuck on for some reason after you shut your truck off? If it keeps misting or starts misting too much, you can kiss your engine goodbye. Some level of redundant safety would have to be used.

 

[Booyah45828]

Pros are that it reduces intake air temps, which will reduce egt's and give a modest increase in power.

Cons is that it's a system that relies upon a consumable fluid for operation. Run it out and it no longer works.

There are plenty of threads on here describing water/methanol use. IIRC one was called the enterprise and was rumored to be the fastest IDI around at the time. I believe it also burned through most of the windshield washer fluid in an area on a rally weekend. Search the threads for it if you have the time and want to read.

I honestly would throw a turbo and intercooler on an idi before a water/methanol system. Once you have the first 2 installed and working, and you're still having high temp issues, only then would I install a water/methanol kit.

FYI, the shortened version of methanol is m e t h, and is apparently a bad word now on the forum.

 

[Suddenly]

I have a snow performance water/**** setup in my truck. Egts noticeably cooler when it’s going. Don’t know if I notice a power increase or not.

takes up a lot of engine bay real estate the way mine is installed.
Bad photo here I’ll try and find the video I made. Pump and reservoir far left behind the battery. Red hose sprays into the intake.
Happy to answer any questions

 

[1189-66]

I am considering installing a simple system using the windshield washer and pump, routing the hose to the intake with a fine mist sprayer, and just pushing the button when I need extra power passing or hauling. There is a screen over the intake already to protect sucking the nozzle in and power to the pump is disconnected when the ignition is off.

Also considering steam injection using the exhaust heat, but this seems easier.

1990 E350 SWVO IDI non-turdbo

Need a bit of extra power.

Any advice/encouragement welcome!

 

[bumblebeer]

I am considering installing a simple system using the windshield washer and pump, routing the hose to the intake with a fine mist sprayer, and just pushing the button when I need extra power passing or hauling. There is a screen over the intake already to protect sucking the nozzle in and power to the pump is disconnected when the ignition is off.

Also considering steam injection using the exhaust heat, but this seems easier.

1990 E350 SWVO IDI non-turdbo

Need a bit of extra power.

Any advice/encouragement welcome!

I'm not super knowledgeable about water m3th injection, but I've been looking into it. I'm considering using it as a method to prevent coking when running on alternative fuels.

It's a pretty complicated system when done right, but can add a lot of power for folks with turbos. There is also some risk involved. All of this can be researched on other threads in this forum.

As for your situation, I don't think it will give you any extra power. The turbo crowd use it because on the high end of the performance (boost) spectrum, the limiting factor to how much power their engines can produce is exhaust temperatures. Water / methanol injection lowers EGT allowing more fuel to be injected and power to be increased. It's a bit more in depth when you consider air charge density, but that's the gist of it at least. For a NA engine, air volume is generally the limiting factor. Water / m3th injection may cool the intake intake stream and result in a denser air charge, but the effects would be very small.

In your particular situation, the push button injection system may create a slightly more dense air charge while active, but to take advantage of it you'd need to tune so that you are slightly over fueling in all other situations. That'd result in crap fuel economy and higher than necessary EGT. I don't think it would be worth it.

If you really need the extra power, more than a well tuned NA engine can produce, then a turbo is really your best option.

 

[ISPKI]

There are some redundant safety factors you have to work into the system to ensure you dont accidentally blow your engine. For example, if you are using a simple on/off switch, and you happen to forget to turn the switch off when you park it, you could flood your motor with water and hydrolock it. Alternatively, if your system is automated to come on at a certain throttle level or just turn on when the vehicle is on, the mechanical triggers could get dirty or damaged and jam closed, again flooding your engine. I picked up most of the parts to build my own kit but havent made it past the design process yet for these very reasons. It needs redundant safety precautions and that drives the complexity of the system up a bit.

You can get a small bit of performance increase by turning your pump up and then relying on the **** injection to keep your EGTs in check but thats really the only benefit you would get out of it and you may find it difficult to balance your EGTs without the kit flowing to maximize the benefit of it. Also, a properly timed and tuned engine with properly functioning cooling system should be able to handle some increase in fueling without overheating. Of course to do that, you will want to get a pyrometer installed so you can see your EGTs.

From my conversations with some friends who build very high performance motors, the real niche for a **** kit is with a non intercooled turbo charged engine to keep EGTs down without having an intercooler, or when you just dont have room for enough intercooling capacity to handle your build. Anything in between and an intercooler system will provide far greater benefits.

 

[03wr250f]

Water methanol injection

My water **** setup Feel free to ask any questions ya have 5 gal ebay fuel cell with custom low level sensor tied into relay that powers progressive controller Aem water **** filter Aem 1/4" line Snow performance pum Snow performance VC-30 progressive controller (The map sensor is mounted...

www.oilburners.net

that's my setup
looks like some of the photos have gone bad since I initially posted it. I can go back and update.

I am the biggest pro met h guy in the idi circles that I know of, that being said it has its limits and I would certainly agree with most people on the thread here.

turbo and intercooler first for best benefit. I have not tried it on a n/a engine, but I really would love to in order to see how it responds.

no worry of corrosion with the setup. it will clean up the oil in the intake and keep the tips of the injectors cleaner within reason.

I used it not for lower egts but for power and it was very effective at that. easily a 30hp increase on -20 blue washer fluid

I usually used distilled water and it still gave a bump in power but much less, about 10hp

 

[ISPKI]

I bet you could get some noticeable performance gains if you picked up a higher flow pump, say a 90cc turbo pump and a cam. I dont recall who makes the cam for these engines, RussRepair maybe? It could be a good intermediate upgrade before taking the plunge into a turbo and intercooler setup.

Did you ever Dyno your truck with and without your methanol setup and document how it effected your EGTs. I had read that a good setup (snows usually seems to be the benchmark) could lower your EGTs by upwards of 150 degrees. If that is realistic then that would give quite a bit of headroom for additional boost

 

[03wr250f]

I dynoed my truck 2 runs without water injection, and 1 with. who cares about egts on a dyno pull.
but I gained 10hp and about 4-5 psi boost

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I always recommend turbo and intercooler before the water me th.

I saw egts drop, BUT PLATEAU with wm.
-20 below I would generally see about 5-6 psi boost increase, and about 100* egt drop. but it wasn't souch a drop, egts would still rise, but rise to about 100* lower than normal and hold there. it also got there with much gusto!!!! same speed with vs without w/m

with water I would see about 250* drop in egts, again more of a build up and hold about 250* Lower than without
all this on a ats 093 WW2 3" dp, intercooled engine. duplicated results with similar outcomes on a later studded, valve springs, r&d drop in turbo, intercooled, 3" dp, cai engine

 

[1189-66]

Thanks for all the replies! I’ve done a good bit of research here and elsewhere on the H2O/CH₃OH but have found very little info from anyone actually testing a non-turbo engine. I agree with the need for a turbo, however those of us with limited resources tend to look down all the rabbit holes before running to the bank! Besides the cost, exhaust parts for an IDI van turbo are quite rare these days (intact crossover pipe). Longevity is also an important factor for me, and although I have the expertise, I don’t currently have the shop setup to do a rebuild.

The wiper washer button is a momentary switch, and I have never experienced a stuck one, or constant un-solicited washer fluid spraying on my windshield. The idea would be to try the simple system with a sprayer coming in the 1/8”npt port of the air cleaner top hat. Redundancy could be achieved with another momentary switch next to the washer button on the dash that I could push at the same time which would activate a solenoid to route water from the windshield to the intake sprayer.

If anyone knows of someone who has actually done a setup on a non turbo IDI, I would appreciate the info, however, perhaps that person will be me. Thanks again for the help and encouragement!

 

[1189-66]

As I thought about it yesterday, the air filter hat is lower than the wiper nozzles. It is quite likely that once the water injection is activated, the remainder of the fluid would siphon into the intake even if the washer pump was not running. Some type of siphon break would have to be installed.

On a different note, similar song, has anyone installed a 12v turbo fan on an IDI? I’m not looking to win any races, just increase power enough to make it up a hill and pass with dignity!

 

[03wr250f]

are you taking like a blower motor in line of the air inlet into the motor to increase air flow?
or a turbo from a 12 valve?


you don't need to rebuild the engine to add a turbo to a idi. it will not shorten the life of a idi unless it was already worn out and due for a rebuild.

I have wanted to add water **** to a n/a idi, but I don't have one without a turbo. curious to the results

 

[IDIBRONCO]

it will not shorten the life of a idi unless it was already worn out and due for a rebuild.

Or if the EGT's are ran too high a lot of the time.