Twin Turbo setup 7.3idi

[Minty Ferd]

I'm thinking about doing a twin turbo set up on my 7.3 idi. As of now I have true duals that run to the back of the cab and go up though the flatbed. They are attached to the headache rack and are capped with a rain cap. I have this old rusted out toolbox right next to were the two pipes turn up. And I figured I could fit two smaller turbos in the toolbox, turn it into a turbo box. No one could see what's going on unless they were to open the box. I'd have 2 exhaust pipes going in, 2 going out to re-connect to the headache rack. For the turbo outlets i'd have a Y pipe to merge the two into one pipe that would go all the way back into the intake. I'd also have to run a oil line, EGT and boost gauge could be under the hood.

The advantage of all this is the easy plumbing, keeping the whole system out of the engine bay will avoid cluter and not have pipes running all over the place. Also the long intake tube running from the box to the intake would be right by the frame, meaning it would cool the air down some.
Only modification in the engine bay would be a turbo intake, and some sensors.

Does anyone know where i could pick up some inexpensive turbos? I'd like to get them off a production vehicle and not ebay because of the quality. I'm shooting for 15-20 psi combined. I was looking at 7.3 powestroke turbos but they have a flap in the exhaust side that I can't imagine being good for flow.

I need two inexpensive, mass produced, turbos without a butterfly valve in the exhaust. Any ideas?

Here my truck: 1989 F350 dually zf5 4.10

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[chillman88]

@IDIoit has twins from ebay. I think his thread should pop up if you search for "manchero"

Sounds like a recipe for lag having them that far back, but I've never tried it before.

 

[Minty Ferd]

@IDIoit has twins from ebay. I think his thread should pop up if you search for "manchero"

Sounds like a recipe for lag having them that far back, but I've never tried it before.

From what I understand, turbo lag comes from having a big single turbo that takes a while to spool up. I'd use two smaller turbos. From what I've seen of people using remote turbos, I don't think it'll have much lag

 

[chillman88]

From what I understand, turbo lag comes from having a big single turbo that takes a while to spool up. I'd use two smaller turbos. From what I've seen of people using remote turbos, I don't think it'll have much lag

True but there's the issue of time to build pressure. It takes more time to fill a 10 foot pipe than a 10 inch pipe.

That said, I'm curious to see how it turns out! I'm not trying to talk you out of it, just mentioning it in case you didn't know.

 

[1mouse3]

As metioned above there is a loss of pressure in a long charge pipe and have to also consider loss of heat to spin the turbine as well. Have seen videos of pepole experimenting with having the turbo far from the engine where they become null and void. So would be better to have them as close to the engine as possible to maintaine efficiency of the turbo. As for parralel turbos take what work for a eninge about half the size with a grain of salt, say a 300d/300td or 3b/13bt for example but are higher rpm of around 5000+.With some digging I have done am finding 54/71mm compressor and 65/54mm turbine to be a good ballpark number on a 13bt, this is a t3/t04b hybrid that is said to be very responsive at low rpm. For the 300d/300td they came with a t3 42.5/60mm compressor 65/48mm turbine and are arond where they are, this has good good spool but lacks some in boost but would be a start to make a hybrid. Those t3 turbo where also on stuff like 80s mustangs with a slightly bigger compressor and same turbine, the svo is the differnce that got a bigger turbine as well. There are some the pepole with the 300d/300td that swaped to a hx35 and think am find it good higher in there rpm range with need for a fair amount of fuel to spin it, the hy35 would be a taimer option with the smaller turbine. The hx35 and hy35 use the same compressor, spec of the hy35 is close to that t3/t04b mentioned but a hair bigger on the turbine flow. There is not much am finding for the t04b but the gt2871/gtx2871 use that compressor housing and can found in around those specs, gt3071/gtx3071 use a bigger t04e compressor housing with about same spec as the 28 just more flow. Thing about the gt2871/gtx2871/gt3071/gtx3071 is that use a small t25 turbine housing that Im not sure if would be a restriction of flow. Have not looked much into other turbo past holset and garett.


@IDIoit tried the TP38 and found them to make no boost, then switched to T04E's. I will let him in to fill in the details of what he has going on.

https://www.oilburners.net/threads/a-project-i-call-thee-wee.70696/page-9#post-942449
https://www.oilburners.net/threads/a-project-i-call-thee-wee.70696/page-18#post-1001950


Here is a questionable one and a slightly less questionable I find on ebay with those specs for a t3/t04b

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293921167527?hash=item446f1118a7:g:ZlIAAOSwZRxhCEXJ
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274106563741?epid=657363317&hash=item3fd2063c9d:g:jfUAAMXQVERS2emi

 

[Minty Ferd]

True but there's the issue of time to build pressure. It takes more time to fill a 10 foot pipe than a 10 inch pipe.

That said, I'm curious to see how it turns out! I'm not trying to talk you out of it, just mentioning it in case you didn't know.

Yes I agree, there will definitly be turbo lag from the long intake.

As metioned above there is a loss of pressure in a long charge pipe and have to also consider loss of heat to spin the turbine as well. Have seen videos of pepole experimenting with having the turbo far from the engine where they become null and void. So would be better to have them as close to the engine as possible to maintaine efficiency of the turbo. As for parralel turbos take what work for a eninge about half the size with a grain of salt, say a 300d/300td or 3b/13bt for example but are higher rpm of around 5000+.With some digging I have done am finding 54/71mm compressor and 65/54mm turbine to be a good ballpark number on a 13bt, this is a t3/t04b hybrid that is said to be very responsive at low rpm. For the 300d/300td they came with a t3 42.5/60mm compressor 65/48mm turbine and are arond where they are, this has good good spool but lacks some in boost but would be a start to make a hybrid. Those t3 turbo where also on stuff like 80s mustangs with a slightly bigger compressor and same turbine, the svo is the differnce that got a bigger turbine as well. There are some the pepole with the 300d/300td that swaped to a hx35 and think am find it good higher in there rpm range with need for a fair amount of fuel to spin it, the hy35 would be a taimer option with the smaller turbine. The hx35 and hy35 use the same compressor, spec of the hy35 is close to that t3/t04b mentioned but a hair bigger on the turbine flow. There is not much am finding for the t04b but the gt2871/gtx2871 use that compressor housing and can found in around those specs, gt3071/gtx3071 use a bigger t04e compressor housing with about same spec as the 28 just more flow. Thing about the gt2871/gtx2871/gt3071/gtx3071 is that use a small t25 turbine housing that Im not sure if would be a restriction of flow. Have not looked much into other turbo past holset and garett.


@IDIoit tried the TP38 and found them to make no boost, then switched to T04E's. I will let him in to fill in the details of what he has going on.

https://www.oilburners.net/threads/a-project-i-call-thee-wee.70696/page-9#post-942449
https://www.oilburners.net/threads/a-project-i-call-thee-wee.70696/page-18#post-1001950

Thanks for the info, don't know that much about turbos just yet. I'm just starting in the world of perfomance vehicles. Are T04Es bigger then TP38s? Do you know what car uses T04Es?

 

[1mouse3]

Thanks for the info, don't know that much about turbos just yet. I'm just starting in the world of perfomance vehicles. Are T04Es bigger then TP38s? Do you know what car uses T04Es?

The tp38 is 60/80mm compressor with 76.50/68mm turbine. Not sure what came with the T04E but variants of the T04B came on the rb and 2jz in the gt range. The T04E can be bigger or smaller and the T04B would be smaller, here is a list that I found with some there compressor sizes.

https://www.turbomaster.info/eng/applications/turbine.php


Edit: forgot to mention the Banks Sidewinder 24004 that is on some these and the 6.2/6.5 is a T04B in 58mm/70mm compressor 73/65mm turbine, the compressor would work but the turbine would be too big.

 

[IDIoit]

no go on the TP38's been there. done that. peeked 8 psi at 3500 rpms. even with .81 exhaust housings.
i did buy a couple T04e's and i saw a max of 25 psi on a stock turbo calibrated pump, turned up 2-3 flats.
but the bearings/oil seals shat the bed quick.

bought another set of t04e's and sent them to a buddy and he reworked them, they have been great.
i still havnt bought a hot IP for this rig, yet.

as far as putting them behind the truck....
some think its cool. but its the lazy way out IMO.
i prefer to keep them near the engine.

i have deleted my wastegates.
found them to be in the way, and i really dont care to regulate my boost. i want all of it.

 

[1mouse3]

Found something from @Thewespaul on sizing turbos

https://www.oilburners.net/threads/...o-components-specs-and-compressor-maps.83966/


Based on what I read there, with a target of 350hp that would mean Id want 32lbs/min. If shooting for for 12psi at sea level that would set a ratio of 2, that would be in the efficiency zone of these 3 turbos compressor. A HX35/HY35 would be the same but not find a map that is half way ledgable right now, one can barely make out so not posting. This should give some food for though on where to go.

GTX3071R

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GTX2871R

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T04B-H3

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[aggiediesel01]

The energy of the expanding hot exhaust gasses leftover after pushing the piston down is what drives the turbine fast enough to move more air volume into the motor than is being released. Because of this it is typically best to keep the turbos as close to the engine as possible. However if you insulate the exhaust pipes to the turbos via ceramic coatings and insulation wrap it's probably possible to have a decent system. With the injector pump turned up you will have to deal with excess smoke during acceleration until the turbos can catch up and compress enough air to burn the fuel (another reason to keep them close coupled to the motor). As for easy to find/readily available, the Chinese ebay turbos seem to be decent for some people especially if they are gone through locally. But while we're dreaming up ideas....if you've got the room, why not go with 4 really small turbos. I suggest this because half of 7.3L is ~ 3.5L and when I hear that I think Ecoboost which already has twins on it. Lots of those in the salvage yards by now maybe some can be sourced cheap. The smaller the spinning mass of the turbo the less energy it takes to bring it up to speed. In your case maybe you've got enough heat energy to drive the smaller ones better from that far away than fewer larger ones?

Being that far away from the engine oil supply you will have to design a unique oiling system no matter which you choose. Might be best to just isolate it from the engine and make a closed loop oiling system with an electric pump, heat exchanger and fan mounted somewhere convenient near the box.

 

[1mouse3]

i did buy a couple T04e's and i saw a max of 25 psi on a stock turbo calibrated pump, turned up 2-3 flats.
but the bearings/oil seals shat the bed quick.

bought another set of t04e's and sent them to a buddy and he reworked them, they have been great.
i still havnt bought a hot IP for this rig, yet.

Would you happen to know the spec of the t04e you where or the reworked ones?

 

[aggiediesel01]

To the OP: Since mouse brought up Wes, you're only about 80mi from him. Before you jump into the deep end you should check out his website and maybe setup a visit to see what else can be done.

www.Classicdieseldesigns.com

 

[ISPKI]

Another heads up, twin smaller turbos wont spool quicker than a single turbo of roughly double the dimensions. You are splitting your exhaust gasses in half so from a pure volume stand point, the lag will be similar aside from minor potential scavenging gains. The other issue is that running your exhaust gasses down that length of pipe prior to reaching the turbos will cause more temperature and expansion loss with twin turbos than it will with a single turbo.

Not only that, our IDIs dont stackup great with large turbos in the first place since they spin fairly slow. We have high displacement but the calculation for exhaust volume takes RPM into consideration as well which a major limiting factor with our engines. Unlike smaller displacement motors that can spin at massive RPM which in turn allows them to run larger turbos - albeit with plenty of lag, but they have the head room to compensate for that lag and still get plenty of RPM under boost.

 

[IDIoit]

Would you happen to know the spec of the t04e you where or the reworked ones?

76 mm/56mm

 

[1mouse3]

Grabed a few T04e maps, these would be usefull compressors. The 46 trim would be good at a low power target and I like the 50 trim map, 54 trim is what @IDIoit has.

T04E-46

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T04E-50

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T04E-54

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