Trying to bleed the clutch

[rhkcommander]

I left the clutch slave dangling when I pulled the old engine out. Probably aren't supposed to do that but I never found info to the contrary either.

Got it on new engine, the plastic has some play in it so it doesnt line straight up with the clutch fork but I got it on.

Last night I sat there and pumped the pedal a good hundred times at least, it came all the way up a couple times on its own, the rest were about half. It was enough to drive so I took her out on two separate loops and the engine did great, every time I shifted though I either had to toe-up the pedal or it would come up halfway then clunk-up the rest. So I bring her home and park it nose down on the driveway (slight incline).

Today I go out there and I can't even get enough to shift except in reverse. So I tried pumping by hand until my damn arms got tired.

I tried pumping from the slave by pushing the fork INTO it. That made some bubbly noise but made the pedal much worse.

So then I tried the "DOT-3 brake fluid shower", open the bleeder, squeeze the slave, close, release the slave, repeat. Now I have to PULL the pedal from the floor and it feels like I'm fighting suction or something . I hear air in the master when I stick my head by the pedals. I still have the plastic bushing on the rod too.

Help is very appreciated. Apparently I can swap an engine but not bleed a clutch

Master is full up on fluid

 

[rhkcommander]

Could the master be shot?

didnt see any leaks anywhere. after doing the dot-3 drain crap i wouldnt be able to tell anyway now. Master could be leaking though- i keep getting a puddle on driver side floor but I thought it was rain

 

[riotwarrior]

Sounds like master could be the disaster... feeling spunky n sassy

I have this thread, there are lots of tips to bleed...hope that helps!

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/sh...-Slave-bleeding-procedure!&highlight=TECH+101

Good luck with it!

 

[rhkcommander]

Thanks, never done this job. I know dot-3 is hydroscopic but i didnt know how the master handled this - i thought that 4-leaf clover baffle was part of it.. Learned that when i saw the new one. Oops

So i took out the thing and gave it some more fluid, got back to 1/3rd of a pedal. Enough to jam into reverse barely, could hear clutch sliding too.

Tried more pumping. Tried crawling under and forcing the slave to compress 15x as was recommended on one of these threads. First compression made the master shoot out like a whales blow hole an got the oil everywhere. Doing this makes the pedal go back to 0-floor only. So i topped it off and went back to pumping the pedal an now i got maybe 1/4 travel. Arm is sore. Tired and grumpy.

Tried what typ4 said to do - push pedal 5x then hold for a few minutes. Not having luck.

Seems like forcing the slave makes it worse.

Would the tilt from the driveway affect bleeding much? I cant see how to get level when i cant drive it.

Got any ideas, am i too impatient? Half the engine bay is oily now and so is my arm and shirt. Id gladly pay someone to come over and wave a magic wand over this problem lol. I just want to drive this damn thing

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

Any way you can elevate the slave cylinder? I've run into lots of issues bleeding a front brake on dirtbikes where you just can't get the air out without elevating the caliper above the handbar mounted master cylinder (not terribly ******* a dirtbike).

I hate to tell you this, but if you really want to drive your truck: go buy a new slave cylinder with the little plastic dealie on it. I changed mine out when my original slave cylinder bit the dust and it was genuinely a five minute job.

Good luck: you are close to the end of your project, don't let the mechanical b@stards get you down this close to the finish line

 

[ToughOldFord]

Unfortunately I have experience in this. I love my IDI trucks, I've always had at least one since the early 90's. But the one thing I HATE, absolutely HATE is bleeding the clutches in these things. I've spent DAYS on this crap, being showered in DOT 3, and ended up find out the best way was to bleed at the slave while pumping at the slave. After only about 1 to 2 million pumps I'd have a wee bit o clutch pedal and I'd have to drive it to let it eventually gain more pedal.

Until I found the procedure linked above posted by RW, I am now a convert. My last experience as posted at FTE:

Now, before yesterday's driving the clutch needed to be bled. After the usual pump pump pump, bleed bleed bleed, pump at the slave, bleed, bleed, bleed, with no results as usual I decided to try something new. I recalled awhile back reading at Oilburners Riotwarrior had posted the factory procedure for bleeding this system, a procedure that doesn't even use the bleeder screw. (Also linked in our FAQ)

So I go back to his post for a refresher and then:

[Summary of factory procedure with my notes/suggestions]

1) Remove the slave cylinder.

2) Holding the slave at an angle with the open port where the line goes upwards to allow air to escape fill the slave with brake fluid through this port. (Manual shows it just being poured in, lol, have patience, a bit at a time.) Move the slave around slightly to help air escape. Once there are no more air bubbles coming out the port reinstall the slave, but not the line yet. You will get squirted with fluid a bit as the piston compresses as the slave is pushed into place. **But allow the push rod to push the piston in as needed while installing! If you manually push it all the way in it will suck air back into the slave when the piston travels out to its rested position.**

3) The manual says to remove the MC cap and gravity bleed the MC and line before hooking it back up to the slave cylinder, but I took it a step further and submersed the end of the line in a jar of brake fluid and pumped the air out of the system. I could see the air pushing through.


I hooked the line back up and holy crap Batman, I had clutch on the first push of the pedal!

Remember, when all else fails, read the directions!

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1233222-my-mutt-truck-4.html#post13870107

 

[franklin2]

If you get it were you can barely get it in gear, drive it again. The vibration from the engine and the motion from driving will help the bubbles of air migrate up the line to the master. It will eventually bleed itself out as you drive it. The air just needs time and persuasion to get up the line to the master reservoir.

 

[typ4]

I must have got lucky on mine. pushing the slave in WILL NOT help. just went rounds with a local shop on that one. It was late so we cut a 2x4 to hold the pedal down overnight, in the morning it was good to go. air rose and problem solved .

 

[chris142]

I removed my slave to grease my throw out fork. Did not disconnect any lines,simply moved it off the bell housing. No clutch when i put it back on! I bled and pumped all day...nothin. replaced the master and that fixed it.i guess it just picked that day to die.

 

[Leeland]

Line is almost as vertical as it's going to get. Pumped mine twice and came back two days later after finishing the ZF swap last winter and it was gtg, have no bleeder on my slave.
On the big trucks I don't even bother hitting the bleeder anymore, lose all pedal when I do. Slow full strokes works well for me, when it's starting to build a little pressure you can stop and go watch the bubbles come up in the reservoir on their own, when they quit I just go give it a couple more slow full pedal applications and watch some more. The line is at a pretty steep angle so might as well let it aid you vs going to town on the pedal.

 

[racin460]

Any way you can elevate the slave cylinder? I've run into lots of issues bleeding a front brake on dirtbikes where you just can't get the air out without elevating the caliper above the handbar mounted master cylinder (not terribly ******* a dirtbike).

just pump it up the best you can and put a zip tie on the lever over night the air comes to the top of the line and when you remove the zip tie all comes out.i use dot4-5 fluid in the bikes and it likes to hold little micro bubbles if I don't do that. told about 10 people at the track and they all love it.

that's always been the same concept on clutch peddles pump up and prop a stick between the seat and peddle agenst the floor and in the moring all air goes to top of line when removed all the air comes out first.

 

[reklund]

I've had the trans out of my truck 4 times recently, with one more time scheduled due to clutch problems. I've always just let the slave hang by the hose and it goes back in and weeks great. Plastic holding dealie is long gone. Am I tempting fate or just lucky?

 

[G. Mann]

How to bleed a clutch system first time every time.

Ok guys. This is what works for me, every time. I've been using it for over 25 years [learned it while working only on foreign cars which are a real pain to bleed].

Required:
1. Your clutch slave must have a nipple style bleed screw. [Some of the new replacement clutch slaves only have a bleed screw with a hole in the side, I've had some luck replacing those bleed screws with new nipple style bleed screws from the "self help isle" at the local auto parts house, your mileage may vary on that trick]

2. Purchase an old fashioned pump oil can that has a decent sized cup on it to hold fluid.

3. Buy about 3 feet of clear poly hose from your hardware the size that will just press fit onto the bleed nipple. Cheap is OK.. you are only going to use it and discard it.. [unless your as tight as I am.. ]

4. Clean bottle of brake fluid.

Prep Required:

1. Press the clear poly hose onto the pump oil can spigot. Slip it on far enough that you get a good seal... you don't need a clamp.

2. Fill the pump oil can with clean brake fluid and after you open the bleed screw on the slave cylinder, press the other end of the poly hose onto the bleed screw nipple.

3. Remove the cap from the clutch master, it should be empty at this point. Set the cap on the master and screw it on very lightly.. leave it loose. [If you don't leave the cap on loose, in the next step you will squirt brake fluid onto the hood and cowl, make a mess, and maybe pull up your paint job.. ]

4. Start pumping brake fluid from the hand pump from the bottom UP to the clutch master... You can see the fluid move through the clear poly hose along with the air that is in the hose... when the hose shows solid fluid, stop and check your clutch master for fluid. at this point, it may still be empty.. put the cap back on and pump some more.. check again.. when you get about 1/2 inch of clean fluid in the clutch master reservoir your clutch system is fully bled, close the bleed screw. Fill the clutch master to proper level, tighten cap.

5. You are done.. clutch will be bled and work as it should... no air..

I have yet to have this system fail in 25 years. Air wants to travel up, it's lighter than the fluid.. by using fluid from the lowest point to push the trapped air out, it vacates the system perfectly..

If you try to push air down with fluid.. the heavier fluid goes past the air bubbles and traps it.. you never get a clean bleed.

Total cost should be less than $15 for poly hose and hand oil pump [buy a good one, you will want to use it next time]. Total time to bleed clutch should be 10 min or less..

Try it.. You will throw rocks at every other method.

 

[rhkcommander]

Thanks guys. Tomorrow ill try some of these easier tasks.

Failing that i will buy a new slave and install my new master and try filling bottom up. For the slave nipple, do i just put hose on it or a fitting?

 

[riotwarrior]

G. Mann I included your method in my tech 101 posting as well...sounds solid for methodology to me!