Thinking about upgrading to the nv 4500 do to strenth and a super low granney 1st gear. Has any one done this and is it advisable. My truck is a 2 wheel drive 6.9 crew cab with 4.10 gears. I can not begin to discribe how bad a highway truck this thing is. I am even thinking of adding a gear vendors to the 4500, cruizer anyone!!
Thoughts on nv4500 5 speed upgrade
- Thread starter 1Turbo10
- Start date
7
7.3shrk
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Why not go with the ZF? I would prefer the NV4500, but for ease of the swap, the ZF would be easier and cheaper.
What he said. Other than the nut holding 5th gear backing off on some Dodge trannies, the NV4500's not a bad unit...but, the ZF isn't bad either, and you won't have to do any custom work to get the ZF in place.
if your goal with the NV is the granny low 1st gear, I think there are other ways that could be accomplished that would be more cost-effective, but I don't know for certain...
I have been reading that the ZF is a little weak in overdrive. Reliability is paramontI and I dont think there is that much differance in cost when you look at the whole picture but I could be wrong. I would like your thinking on this as it is not in stone. Thanks.
I've never heard anything about the ZF having problems with overdrive. Actually, the only problems I can recall hearing about are the occasional cracked bellhousing (and, since the bellhousing is integrated to the tranny on a ZF, it means that the whole case needs to be replaced unless someone can weld the crack up)...otherwise, AFAIK, it's a fairly stout tranny. I've only had mine about 20K miles, but I haven't had any problems at all.
As to price...it depends on how much a tranny would cost you. The total cost to swap my T-19 to the ZF I have now was $2,272...I paid $500 for the tranny, $1K to have it rebuilt, $558 for a new SMFW from LuK Clutch, and the rest of the $$ was for "little" parts (crossmember, rear tranny mount, rear main seal, etc). I don't know what an NV4500 swap would cost you, but it'll depend on how much fabrication can be done (and how much you are able to do yourself). The ZF was strictly bolt-to-bolt....
FWIW
Thanks so much for all the input. The truck has a t-19 in it now and have no problem keeping it and going to a gear vendors, except I am not sure if thats enough for highway use with 4.10s. These Diesel like low RPMs. Any one with this set up? Maybe a zf with a gear vender?
93turbo_animal
Registered User
1turbo Mel has both of those setups although his T-19 is followed by 3.54 gears and not 4.10's just adding a GV would be the cheapest route but I would think that a ZF and GV would be the ultimate ticket with 4.10s I don't know what the first gear ratio is in the T-19 but I've never needed a lower gear with my 4.10s and ZF and as for realiability I've got 230K and will tow atleast 10K and I always run in OD. If your really worried you could look for a ZF for the PSD they are a tad stronger
Well adding the Gear Vendors to the ZF can give you double overdrive yes....and allow you to split the gears too if I recall. The T19 and Gear Vendors is also a good idea so is the Ranger Overdrive from Advance adapters for the T19 it's about 7 inches in length and sits in front of the trans between the trans and belhousing. It just means shortening the drive shaft and moving the X member a bit. Quite a simple install overall.
JM2CW
JM2CW
Cheaper Jeeper
Full Access Member
The diesel T-19 has a 4.02 ist gear. There are two diesel models of ZF.
The S42 has 2 possible 1st gear ratios: 5.72, and 4.65
The S47 has 3 possible 1st gear ratios 5.72, 5.08, and 4.14
All of the ZF-5s have either a .76 or .77 OD ratio (not enough difference to amount to anything)
The gearvendors is a 28% OD IIRC, with 4.10s it gives you the equivalent of having 3.20s in your rear axle. No change to your 1st gear though.
For the gearvendors 2WD the cost is about $2750 once you add in shipping, and for the 4WD version its $2950. Then you still have to spend a few hundred on modifying drivelines & etc. but it can be competetive with a ZF unless you can find a really low mileage ZF that doesn't need rebuilding for a good price.
I got my 4WD S47 with the 5.08 1st gear out of a 97 IDI for $600 last year - but I have heard of people paying upwards of a grand for a good low-mileage ZF.
FWIW, I have a 2WD S42 with the 4.14 1st gear for sale if you're interested. A little lower 1st gear than your T-19, but not much - it would get you the OD though.
I also have an Advance Adapters gear splitter 17% underdrive for the T-19 that I'd like to sell.
With your T-19 with 4.02 1st gear and 4.10 axle your current final drive is 16.48
With the gear splitter underdrive the effect would be the same as having 4.80 axle gears - which combined with your 4.02 1st gear would give you a final drive of 19.30 - so it would get you the granny low, but not the OD
The ideal setup for you to get both the granny low AND the OD would be either an S42 or an S47, 2WD, ZF-5 with the 5.72 1st gear - very hard to find - or the 2WD S47 with the 5.08 1st gear - a tiny bit more common and slightly easier to find - or so I've heard.
If you're interested in either of the items I have for sale, just drop me a PM.
The S42 has 2 possible 1st gear ratios: 5.72, and 4.65
The S47 has 3 possible 1st gear ratios 5.72, 5.08, and 4.14
All of the ZF-5s have either a .76 or .77 OD ratio (not enough difference to amount to anything)
The gearvendors is a 28% OD IIRC, with 4.10s it gives you the equivalent of having 3.20s in your rear axle. No change to your 1st gear though.
For the gearvendors 2WD the cost is about $2750 once you add in shipping, and for the 4WD version its $2950. Then you still have to spend a few hundred on modifying drivelines & etc. but it can be competetive with a ZF unless you can find a really low mileage ZF that doesn't need rebuilding for a good price.
I got my 4WD S47 with the 5.08 1st gear out of a 97 IDI for $600 last year - but I have heard of people paying upwards of a grand for a good low-mileage ZF.
FWIW, I have a 2WD S42 with the 4.14 1st gear for sale if you're interested. A little lower 1st gear than your T-19, but not much - it would get you the OD though.
I also have an Advance Adapters gear splitter 17% underdrive for the T-19 that I'd like to sell.
With your T-19 with 4.02 1st gear and 4.10 axle your current final drive is 16.48
With the gear splitter underdrive the effect would be the same as having 4.80 axle gears - which combined with your 4.02 1st gear would give you a final drive of 19.30 - so it would get you the granny low, but not the OD
The ideal setup for you to get both the granny low AND the OD would be either an S42 or an S47, 2WD, ZF-5 with the 5.72 1st gear - very hard to find - or the 2WD S47 with the 5.08 1st gear - a tiny bit more common and slightly easier to find - or so I've heard.
If you're interested in either of the items I have for sale, just drop me a PM.
Thanks all thats the info I needid. Question on the ranger, The manufacturer states its max torque is only about 435 lb ft and if it lets go everything stops is this tough enough. Are they also very noisy? I like it in theory. The ZF is sounding very attractive right now.
Aric is right. Double overdrive is the ticket with 4.10's. It's equal to a T-19 + GV +3.5x rear. So a ZF and a Gearvendors with the 4.10's would be ideal. However, given the cost differential, you might just want to spring for adding a GV to your T-19, and changing your axle ratio to 3.54, unless you do a lot of heavy towing, or have 4X4.
SKimballC
Registered User
I had the Gear Vendors/ZF5/4:10 combo in my turbo '91. It was perfect. That truck never saw over 2100 rpm's and got 17-18 mpg both in town and doing 75 down the highway.
Cheaper Jeeper
Full Access Member
435 ft lbs is PLENTY. I seriously doubt that any "normal" 6.9/7.3 - even with a turbo - is going to get terribly close to that number. The stock ratings on the NA 6.9/7.3 IDIs are in the 300-320 ft/lbs range IIRC, and the turbo does more for HP than it does for torque.
As for noise, I can't really say from personal experience, but from what I have read they aren't appreciably noisier than the stock T-19. Certainly less noisy than a ZF with a SMF conversion like mine.
If I had it all to do over again, I would have kept my T-19, installed the 3.55 dually rear axle a guy offered to sell me for $300, and then installed the Ranger OD in my own truck.
It would have been less hassle and less money than swapping the front to 4.10s and then installing the ZF-5. It would have got me almost as good of a gear spread (20.82 final drive in 1st & 3.15 final drive in 5th with the ZF, vs. 16.70 final drive in 1st and 3.55 final drive in 4th with the T-19/Ranger combo), plus I'd have 8 forward gears, 2 reverse gears AND a twin-stick (how cool is THAT!?!). Instead I have a slightly wider spread but only 5 gears, and a slightly noisey ZF-5/SMF conversion setup.
Unfortunately I didn't have the Ranger box available to me at the time so I went the route that I did, BUT, I think the other setup would have been a lot cooler and more flexible. Now if it were possible to install the Ranger with my ZF-5, THAT would be REALLY cool - but it isn't since the Ranger goes between the tranny & bellhousing and the ZF doesn't separate at the bellhousing...
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