So what did you do with your truck today?

[Jesus Freak]

Thanks for that info. The 302 is also coming out and will be replaced with a 351W at the same time. I can say that the FMX has worked just fine for several years. I just can't get the front seal to stop leaking. I've replaced it three times. The Windsor had a AOD behind it. I bought a new flex plate for the Windsor because the guy swore up and down that the old one was bad and he couldn't start the engine. I bought a new one even though I can't see any bad teeth.

I had looked up a flexplate for a 1980 E-250 van with a 351 Windsor because the last I remember seeing an FMX in a car was about '78-'79 and I had never seen an FMX in a later van.

I always liked rebuilding FMX's because they reminded me of something akin to a dinosaur...an earlier time in the transmission world...a leftover that still did the job and was still hauling the freight.

Other guys avoided them whenever they could because they were time-consuming and very sensitive to contamination...

They were pretty dog gone heavy...though...it was best to get someone to help you lift it onto and off of the bench...but still a nice looking unit...inside and out.

Can't beat the torque of that Windsor...wish I had one to play with...

Hey, since both of you are on the subject (and very knowledgeable..... and handsome I might add....) In the not too distant future(God willing, 6mths) I'm going to be attaching an 86' AOD to the back of a 84' 351W and apparently I gotta use a very exacting flex plate to accommodate this "mateing". Any comments? Or information?

 

[XOLATEM]

86' AOD to the back of a 84' 351W

Hey Buddy,

According to rock auto...when you look up either an '84 or '86 the same flywheel comes up...I would use a pioneer part before an atp....

FRA202 Pioneer.

I had an engine builder buddy that swore by pioneer parts...

Hey, since both of you are on the subject (and very knowledgeable..... and handsome I might add....)

Now we are stepping in 'it'...I had to pull up my pants a little to keep them from getting soiled...

And I tried to change my avatar the other night...just to make you happy...but I could not get a 'Southern Cross' to load up....

 

[Jesus Freak]

Hey Buddy,

According to rock auto...when you look up either an '84 or '86 the same flywheel comes up...I would use a pioneer part before an atp....

FRA202 Pioneer.

I had an engine builder buddy that swore by pioneer parts...

Now we are stepping in 'it'...I had to pull up my pants a little to keep them from getting soiled...

And I tried to change my avatar the other night...just to make you happy...but I could not get a 'Southern Cross' to load up....

Thanks for the info on pioneer, I'll definitely look it up. The issue is apparently AODs only came on 351Ws in like one application and are balanced in a particular way. I really don't know, but I'm just bouncing ideas and collecting knowledge.

As far as the "stars and bars", they're liable to run you off! And here comes some useless knowledge.........in 1993, I bought the entire series of the last 3 3/4in gijoe toys with my own money. I was 12yrs old, still got em. The character called "Cross Country" is in a grey confederate uniform, with the battle flag on his back AND belt buckle.........I couldn't imagine Hasbro getting away with that today.......

 

[FrozenMerc]

JF, Your exactly right. I stuck a 351W and AOD into a '57 Ranchero a number of years ago. If I recall, the Crown Vic was the only application that used the AOD behind a 351W. A C6 or C4 flex plate will not work. I almost smoked the pump before I figured that one out.

 

[Jesus Freak]

JF, Your exactly right. I stuck a 351W and AOD into a '57 Ranchero a number of years ago. If I recall, the Crown Vic was the only application that used the AOD behind a 351W. A C6 or C4 flex plate will not work. I almost smoked the pump before I figured that one out.

The crown Vic application is what I've heard. Thanks for the confirmation @FrozenMerc . This will be for my black 84 bronco. I'll start a thread for it when it starts happening. And HEY, @Nero and @XOLATEM ...... wait until you see the cupholders I got planned for it! Wooooooweeeeee!

 

[XOLATEM]

Pioneer FRA205 for an '86 Crown Vic

Definitely looks a little more AOD-like...

Sorry about the mis-direction...I was taking a stab at it without the benefit of my industry-vendor catalogs...

I'll bet that the rearward spacing is a little more generous...because the early models would flex enough forward to put an imprint of the crank bolts on the front of the torque convertor...we scratched our heads on that one for a while...

 

[XOLATEM]

I couldn't imagine Hasbro getting away with that today.......

That is just the reason that nascar will never get any more of my business....nor anyone I can dissuade from spending any money on them or any of their advertisers...

eff-em...

 

[Jesus Freak]

Pioneer FRA205 for an '86 Crown Vic

Definitely looks a little more AOD-like...

Sorry about the mis-direction...I was taking a stab at it without the benefit of my industry-vendor catalogs...

I'll bet that the rearward spacing is a little more generous...because the early models would flex enough forward to put an imprint of the crank bolts on the front of the torque convertor...we scratched our heads on that one for a while...

No worries! What will we ever do without industry vendor catalogs?

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Can't beat the torque of that Windsor..

I'm hoping that it will help to increase my mileage.

and handsome I might add....)

You obviously haven't seen me.

The issue is apparently AODs only came on 351Ws in like one application and are balanced in a particular way.

I don't know about the AOD, but I do know that Windsors are balanced differently than a 302. I ended up with a cranked bellhousing and a flex plate with the center where it bolts to the crank broken out.

If I recall, the Crown Vic was the only application that used the AOD behind a 351W.

That's my set up exactly. Out of a 85 Crown Vic. Complete with a completely awful VVC on the intake. That last piece will go into my next scrap iron load where they ALL belonged.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

This will be for my black 84 bronco.

Here's a little info for you. I was told by an old timer to stay away from 4X4 AODs. He said that they don't hold up. I gave no way to verify that. Of course I'm sure that they can be built up to be stronger.

 

[XOLATEM]

I was told by an old timer to stay away from 4X4 AODs. He said that they don't hold up. I gave no way to verify that. Of course I'm sure that they can be built up to be stronger.

I believe the reason he said that was from experience....repeat or pattern failures...I have a couple of thoughts on that which might shed a little light on the situation...

The early AOD had two input shafts...both splined to two different parts of the torque convertor...the center one was splined to a damper assy. affixed to the front cover...looked like the hub and spring setup on a standard shift clutch disc...

The other shaft was hollow...because the first shaft rode inside of it...but the second shaft was the one that would connect you up from the TC impeller to the Forward clutch...and when you were in Reverse, First, Second, and Third (direct drive)...the powerflow was through that clutch...

Once you were in Third,(direct drive)...the effect was the same as if you were in 3rd in a three speed manual or 4th in a four or five speed manual...you had a direct connection from the crankshaft of the engine to the driveshaft and rear axle pinion gear...all of that driveline is spinning as one unit...

All well and good...as long as you were moving along faster than ...oh...say...45 MPH...

BUT....on coastdown...if the unit stayed in Direct Drive...you would wind up lugging the engine...just as if you had a manual trans and forgot to downshift on coastdown....

LUGG...LUGG...LUGG...etc.etc...that kind of torsional vibration...well...you know...not good for anything...tends to beat up stuff and generate drivability compaints...

The early units had a calibration problem where they would hold a higher gear range longer than they should have...

It was bad enough with a passenger car...with tire heights kinda short (compared to trucks) and final drive ratios from 2.50 to 3.25...

BUT...now put that unit in a truck with taller tires...more weight...and not-very-steep final drive ratios...NOW you have a real dog...

The fix is to recalibrate the unit to upshift and downshift on time instead of lazily...and to gear the vehicle better...and if it is 4x4...well...make sure to re-gear front and back...to a better ratio...starting at about 3.73-to 4.10...and keep your tire height more reasonable instead of nosebleed high...

One thing the aftermarket did was to eventually offer an input shaft that omitted the center splines but attached the direct clutch pack to it in the back of the shaft...more like the shaft in a 4R70...but you would lose some RPM reduction in 3rd and 4th...

So...yeah...if I had an early 80's Ford truck with an AOD...I could fix it so it would hold up just fine...but the fix would not be only in the transmission itself...you have to gear the truck for its intended usage...

And...it helps if the engine is resistant to lean or too-far-advanced timing misfire...

Just my .02

P.S. as an aside...the geartrain in the AOD is similar to the one found in an FMX...good ideas just seem to live on and on....

 

[Jesus Freak]

Here's a little info for you. I was told by an old timer to stay away from 4X4 AODs. He said that they don't hold up. I gave no way to verify that. Of course I'm sure that they can be built up to be stronger.

As long as it's my bronco, it'll probably never go in 4wd. I'm not a four wheeler, I just like the way broncos look. If I was a bit more ambitious I'd do an entire front end swap with a F150 so as not to have all the extra stuff to break and just have a 2wd bronco that's closer to the ground.

That said, I'm sure it'll be fine for my perposes. No hot rodding, no 4wding, just a driver that looks and sounds great!

 

[Jesus Freak]

I believe the reason he said that was from experience....repeat or pattern failures...I have a couple of thoughts on that which might shed a little light on the situation...

The early AOD had two input shafts...both splined to two different parts of the torque convertor...the center one was splined to a damper assy. affixed to the front cover...looked like the hub and spring setup on a standard shift clutch disc...

The other shaft was hollow...because the first shaft rode inside of it...but the second shaft was the one that would connect you up from the TC impeller to the Forward clutch...and when you were in Reverse, First, Second, and Third (direct drive)...the powerflow was through that clutch...

Once you were in Third,(direct drive)...the effect was the same as if you were in 3rd in a three speed manual or 4th in a four or five speed manual...you had a direct connection from the crankshaft of the engine to the driveshaft and rear axle pinion gear...all of that driveline is spinning as one unit...

All well and good...as long as you were moving along faster than ...oh...say...45 MPH...

BUT....on coastdown...if the unit stayed in Direct Drive...you would wind up lugging the engine...just as if you had a manual trans and forgot to downshift on coastdown....

LUGG...LUGG...LUGG...etc.etc...that kind of torsional vibration...well...you know...not good for anything...tends to beat up stuff and generate drivability compaints...

The early units had a calibration problem where they would hold a higher gear range longer than they should have...

It was bad enough with a passenger car...with tire heights kinda short (compared to trucks) and final drive ratios from 2.50 to 3.25...

BUT...now put that unit in a truck with taller tires...more weight...and not-very-steep final drive ratios...NOW you have a real dog...

The fix is to recalibrate the unit to upshift and downshift on time instead of lazily...and to gear the vehicle better...and if it is 4x4...well...make sure to re-gear front and back...to a better ratio...starting at about 3.73-to 4.10...and keep your tire height more reasonable instead of nosebleed high...

One thing the aftermarket did was to eventually offer an input shaft that omitted the center splines but attached the direct clutch pack to it in the back of the shaft...more like the shaft in a 4R70...but you would lose some RPM reduction in 3rd and 4th...

So...yeah...if I had an early 80's Ford truck with an AOD...I could fix it so it would hold up just fine...but the fix would not be only in the transmission itself...you have to gear the truck for its intended usage...

And...it helps if the engine is resistant to lean or too-far-advanced timing misfire...

Just my .02

P.S. as an aside...the geartrain in the AOD is similar to the one found in an FMX...good ideas just seem to live on and on....

It has 3:73, Ill probably do 31-10.50s, and I'll probably never 4wd with it, so I should be legit. That's great information though, thanks @XOLATEM !

 

[chickenpot]

Well yesterday, I hauled 2.5 tons of kiln bricks and shelves on the bed of the Chief. Honestly it handled it like a champ and didnt really even break a sweat.

But today, I pulled the power steering pump off and rebuilt it to address a leaky body-reservoir oring. I had been dumping fluid on the ground for a while and i got tired of the leak-whine-fill cycle. that went pretty smooth actually, I even went so far as to press out and in the input shaft bushing that was supplied with the kit. New from seal and o rings all around, as well as took the opportunity to replace the high pressure line with the one ive had on the shelf for a few months now. a whooole lot easier to do with the pump out. so $20 for the puller kit from HF (I dont rent small tools) and $7 for the rebuild kit, I would say that the satisfaction of learning the innards of a nother part on my truck was worth the extra hour or so it took me to clean disassemble and reassemble. vs just slapping on a questionable reman pump.

Side note, I forgot to put the "cold air intake" tube back on the air filter housing, and besides a little bit more engine noise in the cab, does anyone know if that actually makes any noticeable difference in performance, in any way? or is it really just a restriction for the intake.

 

[XOLATEM]

Cooler air is more dense and can help combust fuel better than less dense, hotter, 'underhood' air...and...since the inlet for the tube is out front, at the nose of the truck, it provides a 'ram-air' effect while you are going forward..(at speeds faster than walking speed).

If it were me...I would put it back on and leave it...unless you like the extra sound...it also keeps water and muck from splashing up and into your air cleaner filter...