Self oil burning

1mouse3

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Borrowed a spring tool and got the valves out, all exhast valves had a weeble wobble along wiith two intake valves. So going to need new guides in these heads and more parts needed.


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This engine was well past due for a can of liquid tune up, there was a layer of carbon on a few intake vavles that formed a mirro copy. So going to have to do a bit more cleaning before sending them to a machine shop.

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Booyah45828

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Well, looks like you're headed to the machine shop. They can surface the head for you while you're there.
 

1mouse3

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Just 'cause...


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So one down one to go.

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Did also get in a ring tool, going to find a cheap bore gauge before proceeding.

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1mouse3

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I got the 3 studs in, so left with getting the guids.

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As for valve guide seal, I have these left out the felpro head gasket kit I got for the 6.9. Are these the umbrella ones that I keep seeing metioned that do better at keeping the guides from wearing out and how are they installed?

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1mouse3

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I see I have the wrong seals for the exhasut

These fit any 6.9 or 7.3 from 83 to 94.The SS72628-1 is an update on the kind of material (plastic) used.


This is some info and that they go in the retainers

Me post pictures... Surely you jest.... The umbrella seals for the exhaust are plastic and they attach up in the spring retainer... Not on the guides in the head like the intakes do. these motors have had three differant exhaust seals. The first seal leaked too much oil into the exhaust... The second seal was the positive type seal. It stopped all oil to the valve... That ruined the guide and some dropped valves... Finally the correct design came to be. Thats the umbrella seal. That works great


This a pic I found of the umbrella vs disk type that I have and how they are to be installed

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c4164343853ac112ed1c6c8d3f2da72f.jpg


And if trying to use both will get bind

My kit same as rangerwreck, as I explained in another post. Just for clarification you use either all umbrellas on intake/exhaust, / or posi's on the intake valves and umbrellas on the exhaust valves. You NEVER put both on one valve or spring will bind.
 

Booyah45828

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What guide material are you using? If it's cast, stick with the umbrellas on the left. If they're putting bronze liners in them, go with the positive seals on the right.

JMO
 

Booyah45828

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Those look to be cast, so stick with the umbrella seals imo. Bronze has a self lubrication property and can get away with a lot tighter clearance/less oil then what cast guide can. The problem is that bronze doesn't seem as durable as cast, so they seem to wear out quicker.

There's a lot of debate about seals and guides out there on the interwebs. I've always wanted to try a set of manganese bronze guides with a tight clearance on a IDI to see what kind of longevity one would get out of them. I've also wanted to run one without seals, to see how bad it would actually smoke on start up. Most idi's fog the neighborhood on start up anyways, so the increase in stem lubrication might help them to last a little longer.
 

IDIBRONCO

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7.3's have issues with the stock exhaust valve guides wearing out relatively quickly. The preferred solution (as far as I know) is to install bronze liners in the guides. That's what our machine shop did to the heads that we sent them to be worked over. That's when I was working on these for a living.
 

1mouse3

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The preferred solution (as far as I know) is to install bronze liners in the guides. That's what our machine shop did to the heads that we sent them to be worked over. That's when I was working on these for a living.


What is the longevity of the bronze liners in the guides and where they used with positive seals?
 

IDIBRONCO

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Sorry, but I can't answer either one of those with facts. I can say that the majority of the OE exhaust guides didn't seem to have a much longer service life than a pump and set of injectors. They seemed to go bad by 130,000-150,000 miles. Some got less, some got more. I have a friend who bought a 1989 F250 with a 7.3 in the mid 90's with around 220,000 miles on it and it didn't have valve guide issues. He never did have to do anything to the heads. He had it for 6 or 7 years. I can say that I never did hear of anyone who had issues with our heads. I don't know if nobody put many miles on them or that was a longer lasting solution than the OE guides. Surely there had to be a few of our heads that had been driven that many miles between getting the heads and me quitting that job.
 

hacked89

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I did mine with no exhaust seals, I recall in my international book it not being required with the note of potential smoke on startup
 

Booyah45828

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Sorry, but I can't answer either one of those with facts. I can say that the majority of the OE exhaust guides didn't seem to have a much longer service life than a pump and set of injectors. They seemed to go bad by 130,000-150,000 miles. Some got less, some got more. I have a friend who bought a 1989 F250 with a 7.3 in the mid 90's with around 220,000 miles on it and it didn't have valve guide issues. He never did have to do anything to the heads. He had it for 6 or 7 years. I can say that I never did hear of anyone who had issues with our heads. I don't know if nobody put many miles on them or that was a longer lasting solution than the OE guides. Surely there had to be a few of our heads that had been driven that many miles between getting the heads and me quitting that job.
Good stuff. Hands on experience is invaluable. I'm sure a few of those heads hit another 100k+ miles after rebuild.

IIRC, k-line liners are phosphor bronze, which are pretty strong/anti-wear. Some of the early bronze guides/liners used were too soft an alloy and wore/hammered out really quickly. The new manganese guides(mostly nickel actually) have excellent strength/anti-wear characteristics, which is why I'd like to try them. The problem is that they're brittle like cast iron, but it's not a problem in my eyes if the alternative is a cast guide.

How'd you size the liners when you were done? We've always used the broach, reamers, and then a flex hone for surface finish on guides and liners. I know some people use carbide balls, which never gave me a good feeling as to guide straightness.
 

IDIBRONCO

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How'd you size the liners when you were done? We've always used the broach, reamers, and then a flex hone for surface finish on guides and liners. I know some people use carbide balls, which never gave me a good feeling as to guide straightness.
We didn't They came back from the machine shop in plastic bags and ready to be installed on an engine.
 
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