Rotor and pad suggestions to improve braking

[Slicknik]

We use wagner pads in the shop, mainly the thermoquiet line, but I've also used their severe duty line as well. We install the cheapest coated rotors, as most are junk steel and rust easily.

I don't like drilled rotors, as they seem to crack over time.

We have a customer who had a 93 f250 with "soft" brakes. They weren't really soft per say, but they were like how you described, little rear input and disappointing front performance.

I was considering upgrading him to hydroboost, and then I found a tsb from ford and read about installing a larger bore master cylinder and wheel cylinders. I did that on his, and it made a night and day difference in stopping power, and made it so the rears actually felt like they were doing something. The parts I used were from a 96 superduty. I think the wheel cylinders went for 1" to 1 1/8" diameter, and the master went from 1" to 1 1/4" diameter. All I remember was the truck went from sketchy as hell when loaded to pretty impressive stopping power.

So instead of fancy pads and rotors, that would be the route I would take. Unless you already have that stuff installed.

Thanks for this , I’ll have to try this ,

For me I did the following: (so far)

new booster , new master , new vac pump, stainless brake lines , Wagner pads ,, new rear drums and shoes , cryogenic rotors and she has some bite loaded now

but this upgrade you mention is enticing ,

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[CDX825]

Need more information on this brake upgrade tsb.

 

[03wr250f]

After doing some research guys I'm thrilled.
Bosch. Quiet cast rotors pn# 20010357
Will work on both dana 50 and dana 60 front axles according to all the spec sheets.
They specify for extended cab trucks but then say 4600 lbs axle, which is interesting since they use the same parts on the hub(rotor, pads, calipers, wheel seal, bearings etc) on both axles.
They get here on Tuesday, and I'm sure they will fit, I'll update if they dont.

Why quietcast rotors. They have the best rust protection coating I have found, (better than powerstop, and any house brand either partial coated or full coated rotor)
And at the last shop I worked at they gave the best protection against warping rotors.
We always made sure to hand torque and then give a proper break in, but with certain drivers they would still warp house brand rotors. Not so with quietcast. Having seen such a good track record I wanted them on my truck. I'm excited to say the least.

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[The_Josh_Bear]

Don't go ceramic pad material. These pickups are designed for semi-metalic and ceramic does not grip as well. In almost all normal circumstances. So you'll be going *down* in stopping power by paying *more* for pads.

The advantages to ceramic are:
1. Low dust
2. Less brake noise/squeal
3. Better performance when very hot. (But this isn't normal operation unless you are hauling a lot down big hills. And even then I don't consider this a great trade-off since big hills are predictable and you can avoid panic-stopping near the bottom.)
4. They don't wear down the rotor much at all.

I did this experiment on my 2005 Volvo XC90 that has large, excellent brakes. Ceramics made it practically un-driveable. You had to nearly stand up on the brake pedal when the brakes were cold.
Went back to semi-metallics and I could once again test all the seatbelts without meaning to.

 

[steve phillips]

brake pedal slowly goes down - TSB???? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (ford-trucks.com)

 

[chillman88]

After doing some research guys I'm thrilled.
Bosch. Quiet cast rotors pn# 20010357
Will work on both dana 50 and dana 60 front axles according to all the spec sheets.

Do you know if they have one available for a 4x4 dually application? A quick glance and I didn't see anything but figured I'd ask since you were looking at them. I'll be needing brakes before too long for mine.

 

[Darren]

Make sure that the brake cylinders are not leaking. I have a 86 dually and that was part of my problems. Also check master cylinder is not worn out. Leaking from one side to the other. I have fixed my brake cylinders from leaking at the fitting. I have great breaks now.

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[Booyah45828]

I'll have to look for the actual tsb number. I only remember the truck because it was an odd duck.

Customer came in complaining about the brakes squeaking and not working well when loaded. Old pads, and shoes were well worn and rotors/drums were below machining spec, so another tech installed new pads, rotors, shoes, and drums. Customer came back again with low pedal when loaded complaint, which was verified. The tech then replaced rubber hoses, problem still there. He then replaced calipers and wheel cylinders, and the problem was once again still there.

It then got dumped in my lap, because all replaceable components were replaced, and the problem was still there.

So, through plugging and testing the various hydraulic components in the system, I found the issue to be in the calipers up front. I then searched a bunch on it, found the tsb, and talked to an older tech at the dealer. He told me that with the tsb, Ford essentially stated that the calipers could flex, enough so that it could cause the pedal to be "soft", and that the flexing was "normal". The fix was a larger bore master cylinder, which made the flexing less noticeable. After I installed the larger master, the brakes were hard, but the rears still didn't seem to do much. Talking to the same tech again, he said there was a larger bore wheel cylinder available for that axle, and that I should try installing them. I installed them, and the brakes performed great.

 

[Slicknik]

@Booyah45828

Did the larger bore master and brake cylinders you used come of a 96 psd, or what year did you use for parts ?

And did you have to change hard lines at all, or the brake rod that pushes inside the master ?

 

[Booyah45828]

I'm looking for the tsb. Finding it originally wasn't easy, and that was several years ago.

IIRC, the booster rod was fine, it bolted up normally, but the fittings needed changed on both the master and the wheel cylinders. Wasn't a big deal because we have a kit with all the different fittings in the shop. Simply cut off the flares, replace the fitting, and then reflare the end.

 

[silexis]

The best pads I found are some made by Performance Friction Products. They last forever, don't gouge the rotors and have great stopping power.
I replaced some out of round rear drums and the adjusting hardware. When my brakes start not working 100%, some brisk stops while in reverse gets the rears adjusted and it is all good once again.
I change out my brake fluid every 2-3 years and power bleed the system to get out all air. Seems to be working.

 

[1995f4504x4]

My '93 F-250 has always had poor braking since new. The rear drums probably do 10% of the work, the front disks could be better. The current disks are gouged.
On another vehicle I tried slotted and drilled rotors and was very happy. The quality matters too - some Chinese rotors rust overnight.
I'm looking for suggestions on rotors and also the type of pads that might provide better stopping.

 

[1995f4504x4]

I ordered a 93 F250 4X4 super cab in 92 with the 7.3 and have to agree that the brakes were were marginal. More than once did I leave skid marks somewhere other than on the pavement. Truck is long gone, but working in the parts business I remember seeing that one remanufacturing company noted a change to using the master cylinder from a later year in place of the 93. This supports Booyah45828 note of the Ford TSB for the 93. Having owned a 97 F350 SRW with vacuum brakes they were night and day compared to the 93. If I get a minute tomorrow I will check the bore size on the master and wheel cylinders listed for both as of today in the aftermarket.

P.S The 88 - 97 Superduty (AKA F450) brakes are completely different, 10 lugs, 4 wheel discs and hydroboost Ford did not make them in 4X4, only in 2WD. Mine is a a 4X4 Quigly conversion.