Reliable start-ups also below -15F?

[bucholzi]

Hi!
Truck has been doing great this winter, until temperature dropped below -15F. Then it would not fire. I have been speculating about a circulating heater to help for those extra cold days, but those types of heaters are not common around here. Freeze plug block heaters are the standard, and a few lucky ones have fuel-driven heaters from webasto, ebersprächer or ardic. These are great (up to 5000 watts), but will cost more than the truck is worth..

So the circulating heaters sounds like a possible upgrade, thinking about a kat's 2000 w (240 volt). But are these worth the money/hassle compared to the freeze plug heater I already got?

Truck already has new plugs, optima-style batteries with new battery cables, and a reduction gear starter is going in as soon as I can be bothered to crawl in the snow. New IP and injectors also, so I don't think there is much else I can do to increase start-up reliability?

 

[Boston]

If your truck did fine till it hit -15°F then your doing great.

 

[Agnem]

I'd be curious as to the condition of the batteries at those temps. I can't help but think the CCA and voltage for the GP's isn't a little low in that kind of environment.

 

[Rot Box]

I think the block heater does a pretty good job on these motors for the most part. I would invest in a good heavy duty extension cord if you don't have one as most cords have a low amp rating.

I'm wondering about your batteries and how fast your engine is cranking over. The IDI has to spin pretty quickly to light off in the -0* and lower temps. I absolutely love Optima batteries, but the Red tops are rated for 750-800 CCA's and the Yellow tops are often less than that at 0*F. Depending on how much you drive your truck it is not a bad idea to put the batteries on a trickle charger or one of these http://batterytender.com/automotive.html Optima's are known to become weak if they sit too long and the Battery Tenders do an awesome job of keeping them healthy. I hope this helps.

Andrew

ps. An IDI in Norway has to be a pretty rare sight right?

 

[icanfixall]

My guess is kinda like others here but... If you are still using the old direct drive starters I feel they just can't spin the engine fast enough to create heat in the cylinders for combustion. So if you install a quality gear reduction starter you wil make more heat in the cylinders for an easier cold start... Remember, air thats being compressed will make lots of heat. If you compress it slowly it wont make as much heat. Diesel requires 942 degrees of heat to ignite.... The -15 degrees is really cold too. We have had some trucks start at -40 degrees up in Canada too... Are you running a full synthetic oil....

 

[bucholzi]

The batteries (maxxima) are my best alternative in cold weather, no-one else can match the output in freezing weather. I think they are rated 900 cca at -18C/0F. The starter cranks with decent speed, it's a standard starter from db electrical. I have tried with two gear reduction starters (the latest attempt today) from db electrical but both had a relay problem, kicking in whenever it felt like it Both starters were bought in 2009, did they have a bad production batch back then or are they crap still? Reckon I need to get a mitsu if I should get a gear reduction starter.

Always make sure batteries are well charged, have an aftermarket voltmeter so I can keep an eye on it. However a trickle charger in combination with the DEFA block heater setup might get installed.

IDI not common, no. Mostly chevy's and the occasionally a ram or two. Not sure why.

 

[bucholzi]

Oh, and I run 15-40 mineral oil. I cannot bring me to use synthetic oil on an old engine that has run on mineral oil for most of it's life. Bit of a chicken in that respect.

 

[Diesel JD]

Your 15w-40 is too thick. You should be able to get 10W-30 mineral or synthetic blend and that should make a lot of difference. I can't even imagine you have much oil circulating at -15*F, maybe all in bypass mode at that point.

 

[Goofyexponent]

The -15 degrees is really cold too. We have had some trucks start at -40 degrees up in Canada too... Are you running a full synthetic oil....

Last year when I put the Motorcraft plugs in, we had a dauy with the wind shill that was about -25 to -30*C (-13 to -22*F). It was a little cranky at first, but the ****** lit off with no problems.....took a while for it to register any oil pressure as I had 15w40 in it...but it ran. The 3126 in the tow truck was a different story...and it was plugged in.

 

[OLDBULL8]

You should be running 5W-30 oil. Your extension cord to the block heater should be no less than #14 AWG no longer than 50', preferably #12 AWG.
Are you on 50 or 60 cycle power 120VAC for the block heater?

 

[bucholzi]

5w-30? Really? Reckon that would be a fully synthetic also? Hm.. It's about time for an oil change anyway. For an old ****** that I reckon has been running 15w-40 for the better part of it's life, can I go with 5w-30 or safe it with 10w-30?

I do have oil pressure straight away (aftermarket gauge). Cannot say I can register any significant delay compared to summer time.

The block heater runs on 240 volts. Cord is plenty thick.

 

[OLDBULL8]

5w-30 oil.
The fact is that a 5w30 motor oil is thicker in cold temperatures than in warm temperatures. However,
a 5w30 motor oil will be thinner than a 10w30 motor oil when subjected to the same low temperature
conditions - because the "W" number is lower. This is an indication of better cold weather performance.
In other words, a 5w30 flows better in cold weather than a 10w30 motor oil will. Think of the "W" as a
"winter" classification instead of a "weight" classification.
Results from the Cold Crank Simulator (CCS) and Mini-Rotary Viscometer (MRV) tests are used to
determine the oil's "W" grade. The better the engine "startability" of the oil at low temperature, the lower
the W classification. Each W grade must meet certain "startability" requirements at a specified
temperature.
For instance, a 0W grade oil must have a maximum CCS centipoise (cP) value of 3250 @ -30 degrees
C as well as a maximum MRV cP of 60,000 @ -40 degrees C. A 5W grade oil must have a maximum
CCS cP value of 3500 @ -25 degree C and a maximum MRV cP of 60,000 @ -30 degrees C. The
lower the cP value for both specifications, the better.
Notice that the 0W grade oil is tested at a lower temperature on both tests AND must still have a lower
CCS cP value than a 5W oil which is tested at a higher temperature. As a result, a 0w30 will allow your
vehicle to start easier on a cold morning than a 5w30 will. Likewise, a 5w30 oil will pump easier in cold
temperatures than a 10w30 oil will.
Nevertheless, at 100 degrees C, they all fall within the same kinematic viscosity range. Therefore, they
are all classified as SAE 30 weight oils at 100 degrees C. In other words, after your engine has warmed
up, a 0w30 and 10w30 motor oil are basically the same thickness (within a certain SAE specified
range

 

[94turboidi]

I have a katts 2000 watt heater but were typically 120 volt here for most everything. I suppose its basically the same heater as what I have but designed to take the 240 volt. Running that higher voltage will help alot on your cords also it shouldn't take as heavy of a cord to run a long distance as what it would at 120 volts. I love the heater. I wouldn't even think about starting my truck at those temps without being plugged in your engine must be plenty healthy. I wonder about the batteries also when it gets really cold. I think in the northern areas like Alaska they have their batteries insulated or battery warmers ?

 

[junior20762003]

plug it in

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

When the block-heater on my old 6.9 quit working, I installed the biggest KATS circulating can-type heater that was in the catalog; 2500-watts, if my memory serves.

I see many of these simply spliced into a heater-hose; that is not the way to do it and not much benefit will be gotten from such a mounting.

I followed the KATS instructions to the letter and installed a TEE fitting at the drain-**** on the radiator's bottom.

The KATS was attached to the frame/rail such that the line from this bottom TEE entered the bottom of the KATS at the same level.

A second line attached to the top/outlet of the KATS and proceeded up and over the engine to a Y fitting in the return heater-hose.

That KATS outperformed any block-heater that I have ever had experience with.

On below-0 nights, after a couple hours of the KATS being on, the temperature gauge would be up a bit and I would have heat enough to feel it as soon as the engine was started.

Within a minute of the KATS being turned ON, the outlet hose would be too hot to hold.


I still have that KATS all boxed up; someday, I will plumb it into the Cummins.