over-researching IP's. usdieselparts?

[rockbender]

While trying to learn anything and everything about different IP rebuilds/services, I came across US Diesel Parts pump on ebay and they had the following information:

"The DB2 injection pump is a solid and reliable unit that was based on a proven design that had been utilized in many agricultural and industrial applications for years. But one weak point on all automotive Stanadyne DB2 pumps that is often ignored by most rebuilders is the advance bore. The all-aluminum housing tends to wear out quickly where the steel advance piston is located. This causes excess return fuel and poor pump timing, which results in poor fuel mileage, excess smoke and low power. We address this problem by utilizing a steel sleeve in the advance bore. This gives us a more precise pump calibration and an injection pump that will last considerably longer."

Can anyone chime in on the importance of this? I just thought this was interesting and wanted to pass it on. Sales mumbo jumbo or the real deal? Is this something that is addressed in the Moose builds?

I know, I know... I really just need to quite playing on the interwebs and clean a spot in the shop where the van can sit while I patiently wait in line for baby moose, don't I?

 

[Hydro-idi]

This is very interesting. I have not heard of this injection pump company. I think Mel will be able to have some good input about this subject. If this steel sleeve does make the pumps last longer, I wonder by how much longer....

 

[towcat]

this is one of those things that you get what you pay for. MWFI(midwest fuel injection) and OFI(oregon fuel injection) will rebuild with above mentioned parts. Most of your cut-rate rebuilders won't. then again there's a reason why you are paying almost twice as much as the budget re-builders too.

 

[rockbender]

Good to know. I certainly believe in 'you get what you pay for', I just wasn't exactly sure what that was in this case!

 

[icanfixall]

Its nothing more than a sales pitch. Say something to get you to buy what the seller is selling. Make you "feel" like your getting a deal. Everyone here likes to get all the bang for their buck as they can. Many have paid twide because they felt a cheaper item was a better deal. In some cases it has but the majority of cases... they end up buying the better item later on and tend to regret buying the cheapest item they could find. I bought some sanding rolls from harbor freight because they were cheaper than I could get thru 3M... Prior to hf all I had ever used was 3M sanding rolls and discs... Boy o boy did I ever make a mistake buy... The hf crap litterly flew apart once I started porting a head... I was not happy. They really looked exactly the same as the 3M stuff too. Most all rebuild injection pumps look the same on the outside but the insides are much differant. Even a great rebuild shop can use the chaniese parts. You still wont have a good rebuild. I personally could not recommend anyone but Russ or Mel for a properly rebuilt injection pump. They both have a long standing rep around the country for delieverying a great product... And they stand behind what they sell. Please read the forum called... The Hall of Shame. Those sellers have earned a rep thats less than stellar around here. One does not cheat a member of this forum and get away with it...

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

" This causes excess return fuel and poor pump timing, which results in poor fuel mileage, excess smoke and low power."

That statement pretty much describes every IDI engine I have ever dealt with, so those guys may be onto something.

An IDI will cycle an entire tank through the return line in short order, far quicker than anything else, so there may be merit to their reasoning as well.

 

[Devon Harley]

I tried getting a baby the other day ya backed up 6 units I believe my local guy is building me a pump for the second time the first one is still going strong about 60k 3 years. This pump I'm getting now for a friend an has no time to wait he needs his truck an really wanted the baby bad. but settled for this one. Will report the pump installed. Towcat road in my truck an said the only reason it could have ran like it was was from a good rebuild. I could get you in touch with him if you would like. Been in bis for along time like 30 years or more.

 

[junk]

What prices do different pumps run? Local guys are 700 to 900 for a pump. Pensacola is like 375. Mwfi is like 500 for a pump. Moose pumps I thought were right around 700. So what is the going rate for a decent pp? How do you tell I it's a decent rebuild?

 

[BudLight]

With the moose back up, what does everyone think about the A-1 Cardone rebuilt ip's?

 

[Devon Harley]

Mine are 450-600 he rebuild your own pump 3-4 days does not swap out pumps an doesn't take cores. So the better you bad pump cheaper the rebuild.

 

[Black dawg]

Its nothing more than a sales pitch. Say something to get you to buy what the seller is selling. Make you "feel" like your getting a deal. Everyone here likes to get all the bang for their buck as they can. Many have paid twide because they felt a cheaper item was a better deal. In some cases it has but the majority of cases... they end up buying the better item later on and tend to regret buying the cheapest item they could find. I bought some sanding rolls from harbor freight because they were cheaper than I could get thru 3M... Prior to hf all I had ever used was 3M sanding rolls and discs... Boy o boy did I ever make a mistake buy... The hf crap litterly flew apart once I started porting a head... I was not happy. They really looked exactly the same as the 3M stuff too. Most all rebuild injection pumps look the same on the outside but the insides are much differant. Even a great rebuild shop can use the chaniese parts. You still wont have a good rebuild. I personally could not recommend anyone but Russ or Mel for a properly rebuilt injection pump. They both have a long standing rep around the country for delieverying a great product... And they stand behind what they sell. Please read the forum called... The Hall of Shame. Those sellers have earned a rep thats less than stellar around here. One does not cheat a member of this forum and get away with it...

All they are stating is that they sleeve the advance piston bore, to correct the worn aluminum housing. From what I have seen, advance piston problems are the #1 reason for these pumps needing a rebuild, and generally the housing is very worn. I have seen rebuilt pumps with worn advance piston bores. Every pump that I have had apart that came from this source had a sleeved bore. Also, the way icanfixalls post is worded, might be taken as usdieselparts is is the hall of shame and I dont think that they are. I have had good luck over the years, with the occasional problem with a part. Usually just give you another one.

 

[hesutton]

An IDI will cycle an entire tank through the return line in short order, far quicker than anything else, so there may be merit to their reasoning as well.

My guess is that was done on purpose. These DB2 are only lubed by the fuel and the large volume of fuel circulating though the pump should help keep it lubed and relatively cool.

Heath

 

[Agnem]

Here's the deal on this. Yes, that add is correct, in that the advance piston bore is a realy problem area. I've posted about this extensively over the years. When a rebuilder rebuilds a pump, if he is a good one, he will re-dress the advance bore. If he is an economy rebuilder, he may totally skip this step. So let's say you are a good rebuilder. The first thing you do is determine if the advance piston has been replaced before. Pistons are available in sizes from stock, up to .012 over bore, in .002 increments. Standard proceedure is you take your housing and piston to a bright light in a dark room and perform a lengthy inspection, moving the piston around in the bore, making sure no light squeaks through at any point. It takes a while to do this properly, and the wear pattern generally produces a bell-mouth on the bore. If you see ANY light at all, it's time to take the piston up to the next size. So you enlarge the stock opening precisely to accept the next size up piston, and double check for light again. If the bore was in good shape, your usually ready to move on, but if it has issues, you may need to rebore and step up yet again. The thing is, when you get to .012 over, your done. That housing can no longer be used. However, what we can do, is send the housing out to a company that will re-sleeve it. They basically bore out the housing, which includes taking away the threads for the external cap nuts, and insert a machined sleeve that has the threads, openings and what have you that will allow you to then re-use or salvage the worn out housing. This doesn't necessarily make the housing better. What it does mean is that it is now glued together. That sleeve is press fit, but there is some epoxy in there just to make sure. In the overall scheme of things, if you use a good lubricity additive, that stock arrangement will last a very long time. The steel piston in a steel sleeve could be a marketing idea, or it could just be that he is a shop that specializes in reworking worn out housings, and that is all he has to offer. In either case, that part of the rebuild process is just one of the many areas where shortcuts should not be taken but often are. I can offer a steel sleeve if that is what people want, but more often than not, people just want a good running pump that will last as long as the original, at the lowest price possible. And that steel sleeve is going to add $50 to $100 to the cost.

 

[icanfixall]

Thanks Mel for the explanation once again. Its always welcomed here. I'm always suspect when something new comes to this site. And the more information I get the better I feel about which way to look at this new item..

 

[rockbender]

Thanks for chiming in, Mel! Upon first review it sounded like sleeving the advance bore was perhaps taking care of a weakness on the original design but it sounds like it is a different way to do things, not necessarily better... or so far overkill that it would potentially outlast other components of the pump and not really increase service life. Kind of like putting a Class IV receiver on a Toyota Corolla... it really isn't going to add to your towing ability!

I agree with you too Gary - the more I hear, the more I like. Looking forward to getting the old pump out in the next month or so to get in line for a Baby Moose!