Kicking myself in the a$$

[C.J.]

87 f250 with a 7.3 turbo.

I recently switched out my 6.9 for a 7.3 turbo. Despite Riot warriors advice to change the oil cooler o rings, I didn't Then I noticed that I had oil in my coolant. This ****** me off because I could have just taken the cooler off of the 6.9 for all that was worth.

After I went to start my truck one day, I found it hydro locked. Couple of head gaskets later (I hoped that was the oil in coolant issue since I was loosing coolant and oil) I still have friggin oil in my coolant even after the shop flushed my system and all that $$$.

Long story short, I really appreciate all the expertise that this forum has to offer and to everyone else out there: Listen to the advise given

Sooner or later I'm gonna have to do them o rings or just replace the whole damn thing.

 

[icanfixall]

Well thats a funny kind of thanks but this forum will take it. Yes. Those that have been dep in the swamp when they forgot the boat will post about it in hopes it saves another member the same woes. So your saying the truck went to a shop for the head gaskets and even they didn't do the oil cooler.. Well thats just silly of them unless your a shop owner thinking they will be back for more parts and labor work. I pride myself on doing a complete job. A redo is a failure on so many parts I don't know where to start. With the heads off the engine and the engine still in the truck just another 8 bolts and the cooler is off. Hell the cleanup is more work than the o-ring replacement. You really don't need to worry much about oil reaching the cooling system but coolant reaching the oil system will ruin the bearings and engine very quickly. Coolant mixing with oil creates an acid that eats away at the soft bearing material plus it raises up and makes a shake in the valve covers ruining everything up there. Sorry for kicking you when your down but I sure feel bad for you. You can remove the exhaust manifold if it was just taken off the head for the gasket job. Then the oil cooler comes out much easier. Otherwise its drain the coolant and the oil. Lift the engine but some other parts needs to be removed first to jack the block up high engough for removel from under the engine. Gravity sucks everything down in your face too. Well at least it does for me when I'm under any rig..

 

[C.J.]

Yeah. I was in a time crunch and took the truck into my shop. The guy does great work and it runs awesome. Hell, the exhaust leak even got fixed and damn if it don't sound great straight piped. Not too loud, not too quiet. I'm figgerin that he thought (just as I did) that the oil in the coolant was from the head gasket and so he didn't bother with the cooler. I trust this guy and take both my IDIs (My daily driver and my toy) into him so I don't think he's tryin to hook me for more $$$ on the comeback.

Question: Everyone says to undo a motor mount and drop the motor to remove the oil cooler but somewhere else I read to undo the steering linkage and it comes out that way. I assume one way is easier than the other. Thoughts?

 

[riotwarrior]

undo motor mount, LIFT it, drop steering shaft and it will likely come out fairly easy

now I have not had to do one YET. However I will be when I do cab swap...be easy then lol.

good luck

 

[Kevin 007]

You really don't need to worry much about oil reaching the cooling system but coolant reaching the oil system will ruin the bearings and engine very quickly. QUOTE]

Does the o-ring failure usually lead to coolant into the oil also? I have only seen two failures in my time and both of which appeared to be just leaking oil into the coolant(due to the oil pressure being higher then coolant pressure). So at the time; I didn't see reason to panic/scramble to get the o-rings replaced ASAP. But if they can also leak coolant into the oil....I should change my tune when it comes to dragging my feet for an o-ring job

 

[icanfixall]

When oil cooler o-rings fail the oil being under a higher pressure than the coolant it goes oil into coolant but remember what happens when the engine is shut down. Oil pressure drop to zero and coolant pressure stays up around 12 lbs but is dependand on the cap pressure. So how long do you want to take a risk...

 

[Kevin 007]

Good call...

 

[C.J.]

Allright, here's the latest: Took the truck into the shop for head gaskets. Got it back and damn if 3 weeks later it aint hydro locked again. Had it towed back into the shop because that's what payin for work gets ya. WARRANTY!!! The radiator was drained through the oil drain. I'm thinkin head gasket again. Too far advanced timing??? Too much boost??? Poor craftmanship???

Anyway, called the shop today to find out *** and they told me it had been under pressure for a week to check the gasket and no drop.

What do you guys think??? The engine was deffinitely hydro locked and the radiator drained through the oil drain.

Is it possible for a head gasket to fail part time??? Fail at temp and reseal??? I know the oil cooler needs new gaskets but that wouldn't hydro lock it. Now it's back in the shop and they're scratchin their heads. I didn't do head studs or anything but I can't imagine a brand new head gasket failing in 3 weeks and not showing any signs in the shop when they're doing a pressure test.

I'm dyin here. I love drivin my truck. It's my form of relaxation and I'm goin without. TOO much time with the wife if you know what I mean.

 

[C.J.]

87 f250 with a 90 idi turbo instead of the 6.9
ATS 093.

 

[Dave Barbieri]

Has your shop run the engine to operating temp and then done their checks? This might be an issue that only shows up when everything is hot and expanded, or immediately after shut down. Like Gary stated, cylinder pressure and oil pressure all drop to 0 when the motor stops. This might be when your leak occurs. Just a thought....

 

[riotwarrior]

Anyway, called the shop today to find out *** and they told me it had been under pressure for a week to check the gasket and no drop.

What do you guys think??? The engine was deffinitely hydro locked and the radiator drained through the oil drain.

Lets discuss this a bit shall we..

I'd like to know more about the Hydro lock, was this after running for a while then shut down and a bit later got back in or was this say an overnight shut down?

You when these engines shut down they do so in only two or three spots, thus if the engine shuts down and a piston is up one time and say down in the bore next it can affect how things work when it comes to C A V I T A T I O N..which is now what I'm thinking about here.

Have them try to turn engine over just disconnect FSS and bump starter and let sit for while again and see if it holds pressure or not!

Seems to me if it's holding pressure then the O rings would be good to go on cooler as well, however heating up can cause things to change so there is still room for doubt there too!

JM2CW

Al

 

[GOOSE]

I'm thinking cavatation too. Do a compression test, focus on the low cylinder. Was the glow plug from that cylinder a different color, like more rust than soot? I had a 2" crack in the cylinder wall, 250psi compression compared to the others 440. The engine still ran smooth once started but hydrolocked on frequent occasion. These engines are tough and can mask big problems making troubleshooting difficult at times. Good luck, keep us posted, you will get through this.

 

[icanfixall]

Remove all the glow plugs. Then crank the engine. See what cylinder pumps out coolant thru the glow plug hole. Or next time the engine hydrolocks remove all the glow plugs and crank it. Then you will know what cylinder is at fault. Then that head MUST come off and have a look see whats going on. Sometimes a mechanic feels the head and block are "clean enough" and some gasket material is left behind. That will ruin a head gasket job fast. Hospital room clean is what you need. Also cleaning out the head bolt threads in the block with a bottoming tap is a must. If the threads are not clean to the bottom the bolt stops or gives a false reading of torque because its getting tight on the dirty threads. So asking how and if they cleaned ALL the block head bolt threads and how they did it. Make them show you the tap too. They are suspect to me because I'm not there watching and asking questions. Might even be using the wrong head bolt torque too. So lots of questions one needs to get answers too.

 

[C.J.]

Here's the latest: After pressure testing for about a week, with rotating the engine a quarter turn occasionally, they came up with nothing. Then they decided to drive it around for about 45 minutes to get it nice and warm. Brought it back into the shop and shut her down. Went back to start it after a bit and sure enough it wouldn't crank. They pulled the glow plugs and #6 spurted.

At this point I'm guessing it's the block and now I'm kinda pissed because I just ditched an 87 6.9 block. I don't want to keep throwing money at it when I could just as easily get another IDI block and start over fresh. I'll probably look for another 87 6.9 block, do a little of this and that to it while it's on the stand and then put my freshly gone through 7.3 heads on it.

C'est la vie

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

Yeah I'd bet a shiny dime that block worm finally burrowed thru.
May as well pop that head off and have a peek.