Kent Moore meter WORKING NOW!!!!! Woot!

[riotwarrior]

Here we go, after a few phone calls between Gary and myself, along with PM's and open discussion of these meters in the forum; I got my meter hooked up today and voila it works

Some of you may have followed our talks about meters and others may have passed but Gary and I have been really our heads trying to figure out these meters.

Some background may be in order.

I picked up my meter from ebay and when I got it home it worked and I could read the timing off my truck. I was not happy with my line clamp it looked broken but I was getting a reading.

Just a couple months ago I dusted the meter off and went to time Can30diesels truck and wow...just reads RPM no timing nadda.

Hmm...
bring it home test it same on my truck ***

Talk with Gary he thinks Mag probe cause I get a RPM reading from clamp, he sends me some clamps to test/use and see if this changes things, NADDA but the clamp fits my line supremely better than mine. I'll mic my clamp and see if my hunch plays out that it's for a smaller diameter line later tomorrow when I do some pictures for this thread!

We discuss Impedence of mag probe and whether it has continuity to tip or not...mine had none and I forget whom chimed in but they had 50 Ohms across the 1/8" jack tip to shank, I check and I had about 35 Ohms. We discuss that maybe there is a minute AC blip when the tip sees the slot in the harmonic we discuss plenty...all to be tested.

Now today I took the meter apart removed the main board and started testing the small plugs where the two different connections are made one each for line clamp one for mag probe.

Line clamp 1/8" mono plug seems to be ok, it was sloppy but that was an easy gentle fix for me to get the tip to contact.

The magnetic probe plug is smaller than the 1/8" one so they cannot be mixed up. I go and plug in the mag probe and it all seems good. I take my meter and run some tests for continuity from tip to the wires leading away...

HMMmmmmm....nothing...*** remove the plug test the wire and the contact at the receptacle and all golden...GO and get glasses from house so I can see fine detail...NEW reading glasses make a big difference!

Hmm...it appears that the tip contact has flipped under and when you plug the tip in contact breaks...I change that back so tip makes contact check continuity and I'm golden.

I reassemble the meter, go to truck and connect it all up. Looks good, line clamp from Gary very nice! Mag probe in place go to start and get going...come out read meter -20.0 timing STILLWTF, so shut down recheck everything, low and behold the mag prob was not fully inserted to the stop collar it has on it that I previously set for depth. OK so slip it in all the way and recheck all my connections CHECK! Start truck come out and flick switch on meter...looks to be bout 7.4 degrees or there bouts at as close to 2000 RPM I can get it settled at!

So I'll be TAKING it apart again tomorrow to take some detailed photos for Gary to see what I was dealing with so he can test/check his meters and see whats what. Let us hope we have located a potential issue and is simple to fix. If so and Gary sees what I saw, then he can get his meters running again

Without further Ado...Just a taste of what I saw! A working meter I can now help people locally or when I travel with timing their trucks.

http://youtu.be/7pZK5Pwe22g

Hope this works for Gary

Enjoy

Al

 

[Can30Diesel]

Excellent news Al! I'll have to make it out your way for a retest of timing!

 

[icanfixall]

Al... There are not many things in this world better than a working timing meter. Your call last nite gives me reason to open up a meter and have a look see whats going on with this probe fitting. Now That the 16 cubic yards of garden soil have been finished I seem to have some time on my hands. And no comment from the dog catcher about time on my hands either...

 

[riotwarrior]

Excellent news Al! I'll have to make it out your way for a retest of timing!

Yes, indeed that would be great!

Al... There are not many things in this world better than a working timing meter. Your call last nite gives me reason to open up a meter and have a look see whats going on with this probe fitting. Now That the 16 cubic yards of garden soil have been finished I seem to have some time on my hands. And no comment from the dog catcher about time on my hands either...

Well good morning Gary, and as promised...pics of what I'm talking about!!!!!!!

METER PICS
PART ONE

First of all Thanks Gary for the clamp it's clearly a different size to the degraded one shown below yours, as well they have different #'s on them.

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Here is the STOP on my magnetic probe.

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Here you can clearly see that the two components use two different sized plugs to help prevent mix up. The small plug is the Magnetic probe plug.

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Now on to the meat and potatoes of this whole lil fixerupperissueathand!

WARNING!!!!

Working on sensitive electronic devices can be hazardous to both the USER and MORE OFTEN the device it self! STATIC is a huge issue so please be aware of this and do not work on devices like these when you find lots of static around.


I was carefull as I've worked on computers for many years and am familiar with this.

Start by removing these two Phillips head screws.

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Next slide the main switch/LED panel out of the blow molded case and turn over exposing the components underneath. Then remove the four slotted screws and STAR washers, careful they are small and can be lost easily. I placed my screws and washers in the blow molded case.

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Carefully move the main board away from the four posts and expose the two female plugs below it. This is where the issue for me was.

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Here the lead with the Purple wire was where my problem was

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Here the pen tip is just under the small portion that was displaced. For my meter this is the CORRECT orientation of the small tab with the radius ed end the pen is UNDER for display purposes

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This image shows similar to above shot, however you can see there is a small metal portion leading from the purple wire to below the straight metal strip with the radius on the end. There is a bend of 90 deg coming in from the right side of the small strip.

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Just a different angle of same part showing the tab coming from purple wire

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I'll continue on with this in next post...Thanks for looking

 

[riotwarrior]

METER PICS
PART TWO

Continuing on now with this meter breakdown

From this shot, you can really see how the one part sits below the point where the male jack contacts the metal strip.

Now imagine if that spring portion was below the part the purple wire is soldered to, opens contact instead of closing...my problem 100% just took a tweak of parts to fix and get working.

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I have got my nail here ready to pull back the part that I'm talking about look closely at the distances from the little part my nail is ready to pull on to the shiny centre part that the jack contacts

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Here I've pulled it back this part was above the TIP contact portion seen and was breaking contact instead of making contact as it does now when the tip is inserted and presses downward to make contact instead of breaking it.

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This is the CLAMP jack installed and I did have a problem here previously, the part the pen is touching, was not making contact on the 1/8" mono jack like it is here, I had to bend the spring portion the pen is contacting downward to make contact.

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So just a little testing with a meter showing contact breaking I was able to find my problem and just simply and CAREFULLY move to two contacts into the correct orientation and fix my meter.

I do not suggest anyone do these repairs themselves. If you suspect this I suggest seeking professional help. I will not be held accountable for any damage to YOUR stuff in any way.

Thanks for looking

Good luck with whatcha all got!

Al

 

[KyleQ]

So it looks like people jamb the larger connection into the meter, which pushes the contacts further apart, then when the smaller (and correct plug) gets pushed in, the contacts are bent and don't make a connection?


Sounds easy enough!

 

[icanfixall]

Well Al.. I have opened up 4 meters and found just what you describe here. So I fixed them and will be testing later on today on my truck. I have tried all kinds of ways to make these contacts break but can't figure out how they end up like you found. Only thing I can think of is heat but why would thse hest up till they opened the contacts. I understand some thermal contacts open like this but have no idea if these open because of that. Looking forwards to testing this afternoon.

 

[KyleQ]

I'll be watching this too! Great news!

 

[riotwarrior]

Well Al.. I have opened up 4 meters and found just what you describe here. So I fixed them and will be testing later on today on my truck. I have tried all kinds of ways to make these contacts break but can't figure out how they end up like you found. Only thing I can think of is heat but why would thse hest up till they opened the contacts. I understand some thermal contacts open like this but have no idea if these open because of that. Looking forwards to testing this afternoon.

That is simply fantastic news Gary, I'm so pleased that my repair on my meter coincides to similar issues with yours!

Sounds like we've found the "MISSING LINK" so to speak

I just now completed a 9/16" combination wrench mod so I can fit the box end in and loosen the IP bolts correctly. I've also taken an extra 3/4" and 5/8" wrench and placed them into my meter case with the 9/16" so I can time on the fly....or have tools where needed!

Maybe I'll get the wife to make a small wrench bag for them so they get wrapped up and protected from loosely flopping about in the case causing damage! I'll not be shipping my meter so it's just a personal thing.

Anyway I'm so looking forward to your results and wish you the best with your testing!!!!

Al

 

[antiqueford]

Looks like a sudden tug of the wire out of the plug could bend those contacts away, like if someone snagged the wires on something, that's the only thing I can think of aside from simply decades of use...

 

[riotwarrior]

Looks like a sudden tug of the wire out of the plug could bend those contacts away, like if someone snagged the wires on something, that's the only thing I can think of aside from simply decades of use...

This was my thoughts too, I figured that guys are treating these things as if they are a BFH not a delicate instrument that needs to be handled accordingly...

So with my meter working properly and my new found modded wrench...I did this today!

http://youtu.be/H9n3lnwqTXk

Kinda going to see how this runs uphill and around town, see ifn I got some more GIDDYUP!

Took me bout 15 minutes from start to finish, not too bad for first time. This is a clean engine however and I loathe working on slimy oily dirty messes.

Gary, whatcha think...those numbers OK?

Thanks for looking/watching

Al

 

[pontoonrob]

Wow,excellent article. I have one of these meters and check my timing every once in a while. However with this post I learned something new. I don't have a stop on my probe. Its always been kind of finicky to get the probe in the right spot to have the meter read right. I have always managed to get it to work but sometimes it takes a few tries. Maybe I can find a small enough clamp that will work for a stop. Riotwarrior you da man!!---Rob

 

[Wyreth]

I told you, (and yes it wash me with the 50ohm feedback) iffen you were getting continuity through the probe, check the jack. 99% of the time, ish the simple things that end up boning you. Ask me how I know. =P

Glad to hear you have your meter back!!!! (now check in on the meter location thread. =P)

 

[icanfixall]

I know this is late geting back here but things happen all the time to derail me. So far I have found 5 of my meters with this same issue but still wonder why. I have 4 more meters to look at too.. What a shame to have so many broken meters but now a probable repair but still a wonder why. So I have been thinking all day long whats going on here with what Al found to be the issue. It seems the installation of the probe end into the female plug is supposed to cause both contacts to close. But what about when we remove the probe. Is this contact supposed to open so the meter can be used in a differant timing method. I'm not sure but I do have a luminosity probe so I may try and see where that probe connects to. I'm betting it connects where the line clamp probe connects. Now I wonder why the female probe connection is fashioned the way it is. If when we remove the magnetic probe the contacts are supposed to open or break. What are we really doing by setting them up under the spring like Al so nicely showed us. I'm just thinking we need the contacts to open when the probe plug is removed from the meter. I don't know if leaving this contact closed all the time is the right thing to do but it sure might be. I may just be looking for a problem that does not igsist too or making another problem that does not igsist. A working meter is a good meter...

 

[riotwarrior]

I know this is late geting back here but things happen all the time to derail me. So far I have found 5 of my meters with this same issue but still wonder why. I have 4 more meters to look at too.. ...... I may just be looking for a problem that does not igsist too or making another problem that does not igsist. A working meter is a good meter...

Ya working meter GOOD meter for sure. It made a difference in how my truck runs!!!!!

Now get out n test some of those bad boys and report back so we can all shout and jump for JOY that your investment in meters is not a white elephant!

Lets not make the issue of why they are hosed bigger than the issue of how simple the fix is and that it works when fixed!

Good luck I know I'm waiting on pins and needles for your meter test results!

Al