intake heat

[motox tech]

Ok, im not familiar with, the 6 cylinder world, but know that the two dodge trucks w/cummins that ive had previously had intake heaters instead of glow plugs. Not sure how this works, but know its a much more reliable system in butt cold climates, like the one I live in. Now, im not sure if this will only work on direct injection motors or what? Can anyone explain to me how the system works, and would it be possible to do this upgrade(or similar) on out IDIs. I imagine it might also have something to do w/the block(6 cyl. as opposed to v-8 )
And one other question since im on the topic, do the DT series motors have the GP's or the intake heater?
Im sure if it was possible, someone would have done it by now, but cant find any similar threads in archives.
Thanks all and GOD BLESS

 

[SparkandFire]

I've wondered the same thing myself. My grandpa's '01 Dodge fires right up, I've always wondered what Cummins does that makes a intake grid heater work, and why you can't apply that to the IH 6.9/7.3 engine...

At least my belts don't chirp when I shut 'er down, though!

 

[jperecko]

It is very simple... they just have a heating element right on the intake to heat up the air being sucked into the engine. GPs have a similar effect but a lot of the heat they create gets blow out the exhaust before it get much of a chance to help. It could very easily be made to work with some metalworking and basic wiring. There was more discussion on the topic in a thread about eliminating GPs for lower compression.

 

[ghunt]

I'm more impressed by the 12V cummins in our company flatbed...it has NO COLD START AIDS. None. No grid heater, no glow plugs. It doesn't even have a block heater. It's supposed to have an automatic starting fluid setup but it doesn't have a can attached to it and probably hasn't in years.

We have started that truck when it was 15 degrees outside, and it doesn't take any more cranking than my truck would with the glow plugs going.

Also I was told part of what makes a cummins so easy to start is the fact that it's direct injection.

 

[SparkandFire]

So what is it that makes the cummins start so much easier?

Even the grid heater, in my opinion, adds far fewer BTU's of heat than eight glow plugs...

 

[ghunt]

See above

Beyond that I really have no idea why they're so easy to start.

 

[jperecko]

So what is it that makes the cummins start so much easier?

Even the grid heater, in my opinion, adds far fewer BTU's of heat than eight glow plugs...

It is not necessarily the number... it is how much energy is consumed. I THINK the grid heater takes around 30 amps while each GP draws around 4 I believe. This is from memory so do not quote those numbers. Also like I said before, the goal is to have a charge or warm air, which an intake heater does perfectly while the glow plugs dissipate a lot of heat to the block and the air being taken in is not necessarily warmed as much. Also like it has been mentioned... Cummins are direct injected which makes them start easier as well.

 

[SparkandFire]

It is not necessarily the number... it is how much energy is consumed. I THINK the grid heater takes around 30 amps while each GP draws around 4 I believe. This is from memory so do not quote those numbers. Also like I said before, the goal is to have a charge or warm air, which an intake heater does perfectly while the glow plugs dissipate a lot of heat to the block and the air being taken in is not necessarily warmed as much. Also like it has been mentioned... Cummins are direct injected which makes them start easier as well.

That makes sense to me, I wasn't sure how much the grid heater had on current draw. I guess the DI engine would be easier to start.

Just to show how ignorant I am towards new diesel technology... What do the new PSD engines have? Glowplugs, Grid heat, other?

 

[motox tech]

It is not necessarily the number... it is how much energy is consumed. I THINK the grid heater takes around 30 amps while each GP draws around 4 I believe. This is from memory so do not quote those numbers. Also like I said before, the goal is to have a charge or warm air, which an intake heater does perfectly while the glow plugs dissipate a lot of heat to the block and the air being taken in is not necessarily warmed as much. Also like it has been mentioned... Cummins are direct injected which makes them start easier as well.

Not to mention a longer stroke, which gives it more time to create its own heat! Is that an acurate statement?
searched old thread thanks for the tip on the link, im definately going to research this farther.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/cumm...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
heres a pic from e-bay incase no one has ever actully seen one, (like me!)

 

[Mr.Diesel]

Cummins is the only LT motor that has ever used a grid heater, IIRC.

 

[jperecko]

The 7.3 PSD had GPs as well but after that I think they went to a grid heater.

Concerning the stroke length the IDI actually developes more compression which works in favor of easier starting but the other factors push the Cummins towards running easier.

Concerning the pic... yeah they are pretty simple. That auction is actually for the whole intake plate as well we the grid heater. The heater separates off... just has the 4 bolts passing through which clamp it down.

 

[SparkandFire]

Didn't the Cummins adjust the timing on the IP for starting, also?

 

[motox tech]

Ok so why are we heating the cylinders (with high compresion being the case), why not tap the GP's into the intake instead. May be a rediculous idea, but at least the Gp's will last forever. Or, GP's and intake heat?? would need a seperate solinoid to draw more amps.
Ideas--critisism??

 

[jperecko]

Didn't the Cummins adjust the timing on the IP for starting, also?

The Cummins can be more advanced for a number of reasons but I have never heard of starting as one of them.

 

[jperecko]

Ok so why are we heating the cylinders (with high compresion being the case), why not tap the GP's into the intake instead. May be a rediculous idea, but at least the Gp's will last forever. Or, GP's and intake heat?? would need a seperate solinoid to draw more amps.
Ideas--critisism??

That would involve at least running 8 glow plugs in the intake... the amount of space that would take is pretty ridiculous. If you are going to go for the intake approach, the toaster method (grid heater) is the most direct and can deliver the most heat in the smallest area IMO.

In the other thread I mentioned there was also talk of a fuel fired heater which is similar to those use in tractor but I do not like that idea.