Injectors & IP: Timing vs. Fuel Screw - Could use some Help

[damedic]

Good Morning,

I bought this truck a little over a year ago (my 1st Diesel), pretty much stock, with the best I can figure out is a Stock ATS/Garrett Turbo Kit? Pretty much been that way, outside of a DIY Intake w/6637 filter, till now.

Been driving my idi for a little over a week now, off & on, after changing out my injectors and return kit. Got Bb's from Typ4.
I also had a Banks DP purchased last year which I finally wrestled with & installed as well. Then took the truck to my local exhaust shop, and now I have a 4" straight pipe to a 5" tip.

Regretfully I am Not as impressed with results as much as I thought I would be.
So I'm just a little
It's definitely got a little more punch, and it sounds great. But it's lagging at the get go.
No real quick throttle response. I was hoping for an immediate feeling of.
Not sure if my MPG'S are suffering or are better, or unchanged?
Downloaded 'Gas Cubby' App, to track that. Will post results after a couple fill ups.

I knew there was some stuff that needs to be done after what I did, but did not expect that to be too dramatic (didn't say 'important' because I sorta knew it probably was...).

So now I guess I need to adjust the fuel screw? I thought that was also called Timing?
But I think from what I was reading this morning, those are two different things?
So i guess that I will also need to Time it as well?

I read that if injectors were changed, from one code to another, the timing is definitely affected.
That's how I understood what I've read so far?
I don't know what I took out, but they were Stanadyne's. Couldn't see a code. I installed Delphi's bb.
And the IP needs to produce the correct delivery of fuel?

I don't really have Black Smoke, unless I really stomp on the Skinny Pedal.
So, how does one go about getting an IDI Turbo (mine in particular) running right?
Where do I find, what do I do, and how do I do it? Please help. I'm not afraid to tinker.
I am definitely no mechanic and I don't know too much about the subject of auto mechanics, and I am just learning about Diesels. I've had my hands pretty dirty and greasy many times, but not with anything too intense. So...

Is this something I (a novice - diesel newbie) can do? Do I need special tools, meter, gauges?
If so, where does one find them?
Or is there a place in the Willamette Valley of the Great State of Oregon, that does this?
Really could use help from this forum of experts, so I'm asking, please help.
Thanks to all.

 

[icanfixall]

Newbie to diesels is no crime. Most here can help you do anything. Are you close to Newberg Oregon. If so contact Russ aka typ4. He has a timing meter and will time your engine for a feee. He also can drive the rig and tell you what it needs. He is very trustworthy too as you already have found out. Anytime you change injectors you need to time the engine. Reason for this is the injector pop open pressure changes between injector codes and types.. Lets say your injectors were poping at 2300 lbs. These are known as the "G" code turbo injectors. They really are not a good hp and mileage injector compared to the BB Delphi injectors. So you went from 2300 lbs down to 1850 lbs. Now that injector is poping earlier in the combustion cycle or its really advanced your timing. This will change timing too if your replacing a worn out set that opening at say 1500 lbs too so that timing will be retarded.
Do you have a pyro gauge telling you what temp the exhaust is. If not please don't turn up the fuel screw till you have one installed. A pyro allows you to see the exhaust temps and keeps you well informed what the temp is. Figure 1100 degrees is the max you run up to. Some make claims they run up and hang out at 1400 to 1500 degrees all the time. Well aluminum pistons melt around 1250 degrees so how soft are they at 1500 degrees. I hope to never find out. What the mileage on the injection pump too. Most feel 125,000 miles is all they give. adjusting the timing and adjusting the fuel can wake these engines up.

 

[damedic]

I would agree that Russ is trustworthy.
Met him once, and we had a discussion on some things other than business at hand, which was obtaining the injectors and return kit. Later, I had some questions and was hesitant to personally contact him for assistance, cuz I really didn't know him and didn't want to bother him. But I took the chance and texted him my question. He answered it promptly. Thanked him then and thanking him again.

I thought of contacting him again on this problem as I was thinking about it, as I took my truck to the exhaust shop. But then forgot, until now. So...
Russ, if you see this, can I ask for your assistance?
Can we meet up in Newberg sometime?
Would appreciate it.
If better! or not appropriate for open forum, PM me?

Thanks again.

 

[rockbender]

If Russ is busy I'd guess that Oregon Fuel Injection in Eugene would be able to check your timing too, but hopefully you can just meet up with a member in the valley with a meter and get it taken care of.

You can always rent a meter from Gary too.

 

[icanfixall]

I do rent the Kent Moore J33300-A meters. They come with all the special tools to time your engine. I explain how to use the meter and give you my cell number in case you have questions. Just last nite I got a call asking why the meter worked on one truck but not the other. Simple fix. The magnetic probe location at the crank damper was not cleaned well enough to make a good contact. A gun bore wire brush fixed that. I do send along a 5/16 drill bit to clean out this location but guess it was not enough. Russ has an early kent moore meter and has called me to make sure he had the operation correct. He was correct but just needed the reinforcement telling him he did. We all need that sometimes.

 

[Black dawg]

boost and pyro numbers?

 

[damedic]

I do have a used 3-Pod Pillar with Autometer Gauges: Trans Temp, Boost, & Pyro/EGT - I also got these last year off of a member in the classifieds of one of the forums, can't remember which one?
Dang Oldzteimers
I have not installed it yet.
When I do, I will post some of those numbers from / during my daily driving.

... And I will not screw with 'the screw', until the pyro is operational.

Thanks to all, help is appreciated.

 

[jayro88]

First thing would be to install the gauges. That way you can use the data to tune your truck. Once you get those hooked up then look at your timing. Get it close to where you want it to be and then start messing with your fuel screw. I say "Get it close" because adjusting the scew will effect the timing. You can add fuel until your EGT reach the limit of you are just blowing black smoke. Adding fuel should help your turbo spool faster and give you higher boost numbers. I am sure one of the turbo guys will chime in on how to adjust your waste gate if your turbo has one. Sounds like your exhaust is good to go.

 

[NTOLERANCE]

Old pump and new injectors is not a good combo.

How many miles on the engine?

 

[damedic]

Thanks guys, good info.
167,000 and change, on the clock.
No extra cash to throw at my idi right now.
But I guess I better start saving my extra coins for a pump then?

ps - we have a Cottage Grove in OR, as well.

 

[bigpanda16]

Although you changed your downpipe, you may want to consider the turbo elbow outlet, which has an inner diameter of 2.3" ish.
This chokes the exhaust and increases egt and basically restricts overall performance.
Fresh, properly rebuilt injector pumps also make a world of difference. But as long as I don't have hot start issues, I keep rocking the original one out at 233,*** miles
I'm sure mine needs to be timed too, as it smokes but not at high idle when cold. Hard to justify it on an old pump though...

 

[damedic]

Wow, doing a quick look around for IP's....
I think I need to start saving more than loose coins
Those are spendy guys!

So I have this question:
What is it that happens when one says, "You should change out the IP, when replacing the Injectors".
Or, why is it "Not a good Combo - old ip, and new injectors"?

Doesn't a pump pump, or not pump? Or is it different from other pumps? Meaning - does the flow decrease over time, or is it pressure related? Does the produced pressure decrease?

So, if I do need to change my IP because I'm at 168K on the Odo. What happens if I wait due to a funds issue? Am I making a matter worse? What are some options one has... Specific brand, types of quality vs. performance styles, remove and rebuild?

Thanks guys, this is an awesome meeting place where experience and expertise gather, and most generously share their knowledge with us newbies - Thank You!

 

[Agnem]

The fuel system components on an engine tend to wear together at similar rates. As injectors wear, their pop pressure drops off. As pumps wear, their fuel delivery drops and timing retards. These combinations allow the engine to continue to run smoothly, while performance and economy drop off. If you add new injectors to an old pump, you more or less challenge the current status quo on the pump, and this results in further reductions in timing and fuel delivery. That's why the comment 'old pump new injectors not a good combination" was made. Both should last 100K miles, and both should be replaced together whenever possible. When that doesn't happen, then steps can be taken to "re-sync" the two somewhat, but the value returned from such activities is less than the sum of what is possible by replacing both.