Hydroboost, air filters & ceramic coating

RLDSL

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How are those different than K&N?

And why the heck don't they post a flow rating???? Or at least a surface area? I guess you're just supposed to pick the one you think looks the coolest and go from there? :dunno cookoo

I run teh amsoil filters as well, Huge difference between them and K&N, as the Amsoil filters dont let crap into your engine. The element is designed to trap particles at different layers instead of just at the surface, so it doesnt quickly clog HOWEVER it is not a super free flowing air filter by any stretch of the imagination, these things are designed to keep your engine the cleanest possible, and that they do. If running synthetics with extended drain intervals, letting dirt in through your air intake is the fastest way to shorten the life of your oil. Running the best air filtration possible is the best insurance that you are going to be able to keep that high dollar oil in there as long as possible. If you are running a turbo, it is going to pull all the air through the filter that you could ever use, so sticking something on your engine that is not much more than a window screen to try to get more power, is really a waste
Realistically, I noticed that the k&N that I had that trashed my turbo allowed for a very slightly quicker spool up. So I did some head to head comparing to see how it acted in other ways , and also noticed that with the K&N my blowby oil consumption went WAY up . Aparantly when you get an air filter that has too little restriction, you mess up the function of the CDR and make it basically a paperweigh( the CDR depends on a certain amount of vacuum to balance it out and help scavange blowby gasses, if its not there, you have a problem as pressure will build to a point to where oil starts belching out )t. With the Amsoil filter oil consumption is very minimal ( top off every 5000 miles ) so a slight bit of whistle VS multiple excess quarts of oil consumed. Kind of a no brainer.

While Im not a huge fan of open cone fllters on diesel engines without an enclosed water shedding housing, if someone wanted to use one of the cone style, they just need to measure the surface area of the stock turbo filter, then look through the catalog at cone filters with the pipe diameter they need and start calculating the filter surface area on those filters until yoiu find one with as much surface area as the original filter Dont go bonzo or you'll wind up with too little restriction and , oil consumption issues. These filters primarily are concerned with cleaning. They filter down to .8micron and filter out 50 times more dust than a K&n, thats a heck of a lot of turbo and ring damage, although not a striking amount more than a paper filter, but they do flow more evenly than a paper, since a paper filter will clog across the surface and build excess restriction quickly and a nanofiber filter takes a very long time for the element to evenly fill up, and when it finally does, you just take it off, fire up the air compressor on low pressure and blow it off, and poke it back in, no washing, no oiling. Nice and simple. I can even clean mine with my onboard air in a truckstop parking lot.
 

riotwarrior

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Do you know how much it has to move? I seems somewhat odd to me that you'd have to move it since the geometry should be the same for both :dunno

I might have hit 3k once or twice in the past 10 years. :D

Hope this helps you understand the differences....

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That's the modded pedal I had to make up to fit MY pedal box setup for 87-91 truck.

JM2CW

Al
 

ih8minimumwage

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I guess I just got lucky doing my hydroboost swap. :dunno
Found mine at the junkyard in a medium duty box truck, and it just bolted right into my 86. No mods whatsoever to pedals, firewall, rod, etc. It's worked great for years now.
 

bike-maker

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I did the hydroboost conversion on my 84.
I stole all of the parts out of an 89 F-Superduty - booster, lines, power steering pump, and brake pedal. (and don't forget the pushrod between the booster / master cylinder)

A few things to note on the swap for 83-86 trucks; This applies to the manual trans version of the swap.

The bricknose pedal assembly is different, but the brake pedal itself out of a hydroboosted bricknose will bolt right in to the slant nose pedal assembly. You'll have to get creative if you want to retain cruse control - the bracket for the vacuum switch on the brake pedal will no longer work. I was able to get the pedal assembly out of the donor truck pretty easily, but getting the pedal assembly out of a slant nose required removing the steering column (not a big deal since you'll have it halfway unbolted to change the booster out anyway). This i also a great time to install a firewall reinforcement plate if you have a manual trans.

I retained the stock master cylinder from the 84; all the newer trucks (bricknose, OBS) use some kind of metric fittings on the brake lines, and have a proportioning valve built in to the master cylinder (not sure if the hydro MC has a proportioning valve though). The slantnose use standard threaded brake lines, and a remote mounted proportioning valve mounted down below the MC on the frame rail. I tried to find some kind of adapter to mate the standard brake lines to the metric MC, but came up with nothing.

For the slantnose MC to fit on the hydro booster, I had to elongate the holes in the master cylinder just a hare with a die grinder.
 

The Warden

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It has to move 3/4" towards the part one pushes with their foot. I pm ed towcat trying for an answer to this. He seams to know the most about it.
If I'm reading it correctly...It's worth noting that, in the thread alienturtle posted, it's saying that the pin needs to move up, towards the pivot point and away from the part that your foot makes contact with, for a hydroboost setup. Just wanted to make sure that was spelled out...with all due respect to 91idi, this post didn't sound right to me even beforehand, but I didn't want to make a correction until I had had a chance to look it up, and alienturtle beat me to it...
 

bike-maker

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Here's a pic from the side of a vacuum booster. See how it's angled down (goes towards the floor of the cab)?

The hydro booster doesn't have the angle; it is perpindicular to the fire wall, thus the need for the pin on the brake pedal to be relocated 3/4" higher.
 

91idi

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If I'm reading it correctly...It's worth noting that, in the thread alienturtle posted, it's saying that the pin needs to move up, towards the pivot point and away from the part that your foot makes contact with, for a hydroboost setup. Just wanted to make sure that was spelled out...with all due respect to 91idi, this post didn't sound right to me even beforehand, but I didn't want to make a correction until I had had a chance to look it up, and alienturtle beat me to it...

I removed my post. I was thinking backward. 2 hours of sleep 4 nights in a row isn't good.
 

jaluhn83

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Okay, that explains it. The hydroboost unit has the pushrod offset towards the upper 2 mounting bolts as well, so between that and the angle there's the difference.

This also helps explain why the 1 5/16 master works so well. Moving the pin upwards will give you a shorter effective stroke, but more overall force applied to the piston for the same effort on the petal. Hence it would be better adapted to a larger shorter master. Knowing this, I would be hesitant to use the stock vacuum can master on a hydro conversion.
 

The Warden

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I removed my post. I was thinking backward. 2 hours of sleep 4 nights in a row isn't good.
Believe me, I know EXACTLY how you feel. No fun at all...and no worries; heaven knows I've made a number of mistakes myself, and I've even made similar mistakes for the same reasons. :angel:

Okay, that explains it. The hydroboost unit has the pushrod offset towards the upper 2 mounting bolts as well, so between that and the angle there's the difference.

This also helps explain why the 1 5/16 master works so well. Moving the pin upwards will give you a shorter effective stroke, but more overall force applied to the piston for the same effort on the petal. Hence it would be better adapted to a larger shorter master. Knowing this, I would be hesitant to use the stock vacuum can master on a hydro conversion.
FWIW, someone on here said something about there being differences in the proportioning valves between the vacuum master cylinder and the hydroboost master cylinder, related to the F-450's having disc rear brakes. With that said, I haven't corroborated that, and I know of others who are running the 1 5/16" master cylinder with no ill effects. Certainly, when I do the switchover, I'm planning to run a 1 5/16" m/c...
 

icanfixall

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My thoughts about the hydroboost changeover without upgradeing to the 1 5/16 master cylinder is wrong. My reasons for this is that the system design is for the larger master cylinder. Adding this larger mc will alow more fluid to be pushed per stroke of the brake peddle. The fronts are not going to use any more fluid than normal but the rears will. The reason the rears will use more fluid id because they usually are not adjusteed up properly. When I did the swap I felt my brakes really up high on the peddle even before I manually adjusted the rears. I watch how my parking brake sets and when its about 1/2 way to the floor I manually adjust the rears again. These trucks will use the front discs to do all the stopping when the rears are out of adjustment. Then the front rotos ovrheat. Warps and many times cracks in the rotors happen. I was heavy hauling going down a 6% grade in third gear on the brakes when the front end starting dancing all over the place. Hot brakes and when I finally got it to the shop I had a huge crack in a rotor. Finally the guy doing the work told me the problem with the rear self adjusters not working if ever working. He said the rears will get so far out of adjustement the fronts do all the stopping. Then they over heat and ruin stuff. I learned well that day. Another symptom is when stopped at a signal the brake slowly sinks to the floor and you move forawrds. Thats the mc pushing more fluid into the rear cylinders to make them work like design. Then the pressure fakes on the frots and you move forwards. Its been talked about many times here and will be many more times. Newbies come here al the time asking for help. Its what this forum is famous for...
 

bike-maker

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I understand that the hydro master cylinder is preferred when doing the hydro conversion, and is the route I wanted to take. But on the 86 and older tucks, it would require cutting the end of the brake lines off where they connect to the master cylinder and re-flaring them with the proper metric fitting; unless someone else knows where adapters exist to mate the standard brake lines to the metric threads on the MC. I was unable to find the correct ones.
 

icanfixall

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I don't know that whats posted above about metric fitting to be correct. I do know some hydroboosts are metric but on my 89 I do not thinbk so. I actually found an 88 or 89 superdutythat I took the psrts from. It was the straight front axle 10 lug that is now called the F450 trucks. I don't recal the engine in it but it should have been an idi for those years mentioned. Time for me to do some investigation...
 

hesutton

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As far as piston coating (ceramic crown and moly skirts)........

Classic Coatings has the best price I've found and they seem to have a good reputation.

I wish I had found them prior to getting my balancing work done. If I had, I would have had them do my pistons in the 6.9.

Heath
 

LCAM-01XA

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I don't know that whats posted above about metric fitting to be correct. I do know some hydroboosts are metric but on my 89 I do not thinbk so. I actually found an 88 or 89 superdutythat I took the psrts from. It was the straight front axle 10 lug that is now called the F450 trucks. I don't recal the engine in it but it should have been an idi for those years mentioned. Time for me to do some investigation...

The threads for the brake line nuts are both standard SAE threads. The only metric thread that I'm aware of is the M18 (IIRC, don't quote me on the exact size) fine pitch between the master cylinder body and the proportioning valve, aka the big long hexagonal "adapter fitting" the rear line hooks up to. But that shouldn't be messed with in the first place, it gets swapped as part of the master - well if you have a RABS-equipped truck you could try swapping your factory valve onto the hydroboost master cylinder, but if you're working w/ '86 and older you use the hydroboost master as is, valve and all. Not sure what you do w/ the factory combination valve on the frame rail then, but that's beyond the point. I suspect what happened to Bike Maker is the hydroboost setup he was trying to use was missing the valve from the master cylinder for whatever reason, hence his inability to find an adapter fitting to fill in the void.
 
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