How to verify injection pump/cam timing

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Hey guys I just installed a new injection pump, haven't finished up with the install of everything else yet but thought it might be a good idea to verify cam gear was in the correct place. I didn't remove gear cover or anything and marked it just to make sure but figured it couldnt hurt. Can I rotate the engine around once or twice to the TDC mark and look through front plate or oil fill with a 7mm bore scope?

 

[tbrumm]

If you left the timing gear cover in place, then the timing gear should not have been able to "jump" out of the correct position. That is why nearly everyone here says to leave the gear cover in place when changing the IP. Here is a link to my thread when I had to remove the gear cover so I could fix an oil leak. Gary (Icanfixall) posted up some pics of the gears with the marks lined up to help me.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?70763-IP-gear-cover-oil-leak-at-valley-pan
If you line up the timing mark on the crank with the "fitting" on the timing cover that the meter probe fits into, AND the IP drive dowel is in the 4:00 position when you take the "lemon" shaped cover off of the IP gear housing, the engine will be at TDC and you MIGHT be able to see the timing marks on the cam gear and the IP gear when you look down inside the timing cover with a good light and a mirror. I would be interested to know if you can see the marks with the bore scope. Look at the thread I linked so you know what you are looking for with regard to the gear markings. If you have not removed the IP gear cover though, you should not have disturbed the gear and have nothing to worry about.

 

[OLDBULL8]

As long as you didn't remove the gear cover, the gears will stay timed. Yes you can rotate the engine carefully by hand, NOT with starter. The IP is dowel driven so it can't loose timing.

Don't know what you mean or what you can fill with oil. A bore scope won't fit down to see any timing marks.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Thank you! I believe it was I can fix all who I was reading had teeth off when he removed gear cover and the truck ran. I didn't remove it, but wasn't sure if it had never been removed by one of the previous owners and a pump just clocked to compensate. Now would be the time for me to fix it to prevent any timing issues at start up or down the road. I have a ferret timing meter and good timing light.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

If you left the timing gear cover in place, then the timing gear should not have been able to "jump" out of the correct position. That is why nearly everyone here says to leave the gear cover in place when changing the IP. Here is a link to my thread when I had to remove the gear cover so I could fix an oil leak. Gary (Icanfixall) posted up some pics of the gears with the marks lined up to help me.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?70763-IP-gear-cover-oil-leak-at-valley-pan
If you line up the timing mark on the crank with the "fitting" on the timing cover that the meter probe fits into, AND the IP drive dowel is in the 4:00 position when you take the "lemon" shaped cover off of the IP gear housing, the engine will be at TDC and you MIGHT be able to see the timing marks on the cam gear and the IP gear when you look down inside the timing cover with a good light and a mirror. I would be interested to know if you can see the marks with the bore scope. Look at the thread I linked so you know what you are looking for with regard to the gear markings. If you have not removed the IP gear cover though, you should not have disturbed the gear and have nothing to worry about.

I was thinking bore scope down the oil fill or tach sensor but those pics make the timing gears look super tight inside of there. I'll try it out and see if it can get it in its only 7mm

 

[IDIoit]

been there done that.
its damn near impossible to verify if the front cover is on.
some claim that they used a pick and felt the timing marks.
i call BS on that.
i fought with this very issue when i changed my first IP
ended up pulling the cover.
bore scope, pick, and counting method didnt work for me.

 

[rwk]

I agree with everyone by not removing housing, how we put our moose pump on, I'm new to these diesels but long time backyard mechanic and toolmaker,I would think in the case of NEEDING to remove the cover a simple tool could be made, years ago had a VW diesel, had a simple plate to hold cam in position when you change timing belt. I could easily build a tool that would locate in the I.D. of access hole (slip fit) on cover, bolt to the 2 plate holes in cover with a dowel pin hole thru to match gear at the proper location (TDC) to hold pump gear correctly maybe even an additional pin into 1 of the gears bolt holes to keep gear from moving at all. I don't have a gear or housing to play with but from seeing pics and having done it, seems like a fairly simple tool for me to build, is there a demand for such a thing? see lots of post regarding this.It would be fun to build and have available for people to use if needed. Maybe thinking too much but not much else to do right now due to a broken leg.
I understand using bolts thru cover to jam gear from moving, but that advice could be dangerous to a novice mechanic, cast alum cover is very weak when applying that kind of force.

 

[Clb]

^^^^

Get a meter.

 

[IDIoit]

^^^^

Get a meter.

a meter wont help if one (or 2)cant distinguish a negative sign

 

[icanfixall]

Yes, I did post how to look thru the cover to see the drive dowel when the damper is at the top dead center mark. BTW the top dead center mark is not the tall skinny tube we use for timing. The zero degree tdc mark in exactly in the center of the short fat tube on the damper timing tab. Like myself. I had to clean off years of road dirt to be able to see mine. Riotwarrior posted plenty of information and some great pics showing this very detail. Thanks Al for doing that too. Keep in mind the cam and the injection pump gears are the same size and they rotate once for every 2 rotations of the crank. So you have a 50 50 chance of being 180 degrees off when you line up the top dead center marks. That's why its very important to see the drive pin on the injection pump gear at or near the 4 o clock position. Also the dog catcher and I were talking about an idi he was working on that barley ran after a rebuilt injection pump was installed. I suggested it was possibly way out of time but he assured me the timing was spot on. Well turns out the crappy garage that installed the pump had no idea how its done and got the gear timing 180 degrees out of time. They did not know the cam gear had 2 timing marks. See my pics clearly showing the dot for the crank gear and the Y for the injection pump gear. Mix those up and you have an engine that runs but very badly and smokes like hell with no power....

 

[Clb]

a meter wont help if one (or 2)cant distinguish a negative sign

Now THAT MADE ME GRIN!
Op do read up on the trials of timming by ear.
What idiot is sayin is we went after his truck with 2 meters trying to get it timmed( only to find a tooth off in the tower, showed up as a minus sign on the meter.
Garys your man right here^^^!


, ( hay great stickie material... We should compile some timing issues threads to save gary some phone time)

 

[Dieselcrawler]

been there done that.
its damn near impossible to verify if the front cover is on.
some claim that they used a pick and felt the timing marks.
i call BS on that.
i fought with this very issue when i changed my first IP
ended up pulling the cover.
bore scope, pick, and counting method didnt work for me.

Just gotta know how to do it.... I got two ways to verify ip to cam gear timing. Both by "seeing" the marks.

 

[IDIoit]

Just gotta know how to do it.... I got two ways to verify ip to cam gear timing. Both by "seeing" the marks.

my rookie rearend will get it, one day

 

[Dieselcrawler]

Mirror polish a putty knife to mirror finish. It's skinny enough to fit in and still see the marks using a flashlight. Second way it put putty on the putty knife and spray the gears with wd40. Now stick the putty to the front where the marks are. It will leave am imprint in the putty.

 

[Clb]

Tech worthy right there!