how to make real HP with your IDI

[no mufflers]

so I have been thinking of making a thread about ways to make the most power with your IDI. I know there is some info in the tech section but it doesn't go into much detail. I would like for everyone to discuss different ways to modify the IDI engine. this might be geared more towards a complete engine over haul. things I would like to discuss are ways to improve....

fuel

turbo

exhaust

engine internals
cam
heads / valves
pistons
compression ratio
the list will continue.

maybe this could be a sticky.

 

[jwalterus]

you forgot the big one: swap for a 6bt

 

[no mufflers]

I know there are already some really good products made at Conestoga diesel to gain HP such as fuel pumps, injectors and turbo. I would like everyone to add some detail about there product or idea. I hope this will help some people who are looking to build there IDI.

 

[no mufflers]

you forgot the big one: swap for a 6bt

that is not an option here, besides its too easy to make power with them, I want a challenge

 

[jwalterus]

Ancient thread, not gonna look for you since you want a challenge, about someone who years ago (before the interwebs ) made a decompressed extremely high boost idi, took ether to start, drag motor I think???

Thread would have been 3-4 years ago IIRC.......

 

[no mufflers]

Ancient thread, not gonna look for you since you want a challenge, about someone who years ago (before the interwebs ) made a decompressed extremely high boost idi, took ether to start, drag motor I think???

Thread would have been 3-4 years ago IIRC.......

do you know what the thread was called or any details of the motor.

 

[IDIoit]

IMO, these are not the engine to do if you want extreme hp.
the cost is too great.
with any diesel engine you can make as much power as you want ( power = torque)
real HP takes something these engines really dont have, RPM.

i often refer to these engines to my hotrod buddys as the flathead of diesels.

sure,
you can have a set of forged H beams made for these engines, custom forged pistons with ceramic coating,
ARP rod bolt kit, lower end studs w/ girdle, and a custom ground cam.
the best valves you can find, port the heads for more air flow, stud it,
get yourself some roller rockers and smith bros pushrods
modified intake and throw an insane amount of fuel to it.
spend every penny on the most expensive ball bearing compound turbo kit.
it will be a bitach to start every time.
you will have over 10k into the build,
and you might break 500 hp.
your torque will soar into the 4 digit range.

but at what cost?

the indirect injection has its limitations.
you must squirt fuel into a pre cup, mix it with air and then let it sink to burn.


i run and love these engines because of the longevity, and the ease of alternative fuels..

im not saying it cant be done,
but for the money, youre better off using a direct injected engine.

 

[no mufflers]

this is good info, I would be more then happy with 500 hp but im not making this thread just for me.

 

[IDIoit]

i have done most of the above.

studded lower and top end
the lower is girdled
i ran the stock height pistons, but i did coat them.
stock crank and rods.
went with Inconel valves, but i did no port work,
when researching my last build, i realized the limits of these engines.
that pre cup kills it!
in powerstrokes, the "pre cup" is actually in the piston.
which helps alot!
but thats why the PSD's are direct injection lol
i have over $6500 into mine and i suspect the numbers to be less than 300 hp.
but my torque should be somewhere of 600+
and the most important part,
ITS BUILT TO LAST!

for the same amount of cash, one tends to lean twards an engine swap.

 

[icanfixall]

Blueprinting you block is the best way to unlock the hidden lost hp from internal drag. Most every engine is made with a tollerance that allows them to run. But they have plenty of drag because maybe the cylinders are not bored straight to the crank ond many main bearing bores are not true. Look at any main or rod bearing. If you see wear on one side that tells you the cylinder is not true to the crank if its the rod and if the main is worn on one edge that means the web bore is not true. So "cleaning" these up is the best way to actually get back that lost hp. CCing all the heads will get you the same power from each cylinder canceling out the pulse of an uneven power from each cylinder. Getting into other areas is a big deal. That high hp idi some refer to had around 1100 hp. Was twin turboed and needed rubber freexe plugs because the block twisted to much they popped out the oem plugs.

 

[rwk]

Sames true with IH gassers (Scouts) can't get much HP out of them without spending lots, they are ALL truck motors, not racers!

 

[BioFarmer93]

I would say that the bottom end probably will be OK at the level of hp you'll make without spending extraordinary amounts of hard earned $$ on the rest of the engine.

Based on your own list;

Fuel - (Agnem) Super Moose & Moose Misters

Turbo - (Typ4) 2 turbos, properly sized and run in parallel for boost across entire usable RPM range

Exhaust - 3" from each turbo into 4" Y, single 4" beyond

Engine internals - align bore & best quality bearings, lifters and pushrods

Cam - (R&D) is ground to make power at higher rpm's rather than more torque in the normal rpm range

Heads / valves - heads- mild porting and cleanup (you're using two turbos), block & head rear coolant passage plugs holed to 1/4" dia. for 6.9 head gaskets. Valves- good ones with heavier springs

Pistons - shaved just enough to accommodate ceramic coat then weight matched (rods weight matched also)

Compression Ratio - Leave it alone, you're running ARP head studs that have been torqued to 140 ft. lbs. (see Justin's post on FTE)

Other things- balance rotating mass, replace governor spring for higher rpm limit, nitrous kit, custom exhaust manifolds or Stan's headers, depending on where you want your turbos mounted.

I am by no means a super IDI wrench or horsepower guru, these are just things that I've picked up over the years here on Oil Burners. I'm sure that others will have commentary on this post,
but these are things I would do if I was trying to keep the costs anywhere near the "sanity" level. JMHO..

 

[riotwarrior]

Lol...

This thread existz already...uze search its all there

 

[laserjock]

I've done a lot of reading and the conclusion pretty much is that there are three factors for making power with the IDI.

1. Fuel
2. Air
3. F-factor

Fuel has pretty much been solved at this point with the high output pumps on the market. There is enough fuel available for 99%+ of the builds. Air is coming along. R&D with his kits and the teaser of what is possible with the Moose Boost turbo have pretty much caught up to where the fuel is. The third thing is the F-factor. I'm working on the exact formula to quantify it but essentially it relates power levels to failure rates and dollars spent to minimize failure rates. So essentially, right now, if you whip out your credit card, you can have enough fuel and air to cause the F-factor to be your limitation because with fuel and air the failure rates begin to climb and the dollars spent to mitigate them also start to climb. As has been said, the bottom ends are pretty tough but I would say in stages or tiers of necessity it goes basically:

1 head studs
2 blueprinting the engine
3 decompressed ceramic coated pistons
4 valve train upgrades
5 main studs and girdles

That's just about all you can do short of MAJOR modification to increase the reliability at higher power levels IMHO.

We've all seen big power builds but it always come down to a trade of reliability vs power vs dollars to mitigate reliability problems.

My 2 cents worth.

 

[no mufflers]

Lol...

This thread existz already...uze search its all there

I started looking and found some good info. from what I have read so far you cant really decompress the motor much below 20.0:1 or 19.0:1