how fast can we go roundy round

[racer30]

I think the IDI is plenty strong enuff to spin up to 5000RPM It is more about what kind off power and torq you can get at that rpm?.. Is it realy needed to turn that fast?... IMO turning up past 4400RPM would not be needed. In my simulations on the computer the engine is pulling to 3800 pretty hard But starts falling off past 4000... And to do that I needed to play with the cam specs to get it to run that fast. There are so many things to think about. you can build a low rpm engine or a high rpm engine It just needs different cam specs. and turbo size to make boost in the range you are looking for. I have built engines that run on methanal with 14.5 to 1 comp that made 515 hp on a dyno and they had way smaller rods and pins inside them almost scary light pistons infact the only engine failure I had was from a Kieth Black piston breaking at the oil ring grove. I will say when I took apart my first IDI and found all the pistons were cracked, one was grenaded and you could tell the engine had ran on 7 cylinders long enuff to grove the cylinder with the rist pin 1/4 inch deep. I knew this engine was hell for stout. Just need to make sure I dont over heat the pistons in my engine and I think I will be ok.

 

[hairyboxnoogle]

That brings a question to my mind, wonder if you could grove the edge of the piston for an 0- ring like with floating wrist pins, just to doubly prevent wrist pin walk. or even convert them to floating. I agree with ya racer, i think theyre tuff enough, and 1k-4400 is a plenty big power band. And like said above, i think it will only take a little playing with the fuel /timing curve and cam grind to make it run real nice. Ideally, im hoping for a nice level torque curve peaking at 1800-2kish, and hp up around 4k

 

[blown84]

... I agree with ya racer, i think theyre tuff enough, and 1k-4400 is a plenty big power band. And like said above, i think it will only take a little playing with the fuel /timing curve and cam grind to make it run real nice. Ideally, im hoping for a nice level torque curve peaking at 1800-2kish, and hp up around 4k

sounds like we have similar power bands in mind. what i really want is huge torque (maybe, 5-600 ft-lbs. more is always better though!) off of idle that only builds to bout 2300 rpm. im more interested in the torque than the hp, and id be happy as long as the torque doesnt fall any lower than what it is at idle, when its revvin it up. i want the 4k governor just for extra usable RPM. i used to have a 91 F250 with a 460, and i routinely bounced it off of the governor at 4600, and it was completely stock!

 

[bike-maker]

Converting pressed on rods to floating is fairly common practice, but usually when using a new set of pistons that are already machined for spiral locks. Not sure if a stock piston has enough meat around it to machine the grooves in, and I'm not sure how you would even go about machining them in there.
I'm guessing the pin walking out for racer30 was due to the piston being grenaded. Only time I've seen a pin walk out was on a floating rod that detonated so badly, it rattled the clip out of the pin bore in the piston, leaving nothing to keep the pin in it's place.

 

[snicklas]

Ideally, im hoping for a nice level torque curve peaking at 1800-2kish, and hp up around 4k

Those number sound somewhat familiar.... I know this is an apples and oranges compairson, but something to keep in mind.

Not sure what the internals look like (have not had them apart yet) but still all IH Diesel engines....

6.9 IDI 421CI ~1000ish lbs fully dressed
7.3 IDI 444CI ~1000ish lbs fully dressed

7.3 IDI Turbo Ford specs: 190hp @ 3000rpm, 338lb/ft @ 1600 rpm, ~12lbs of boost (not 100% on what wastegate was set at) , 2 valves per cylinder, 21.5:1 CR

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7.3 DI (PSD) 444CI ~1000ish lbs fully dressed

7.3 DI (PSD) Turbo Ford specs: 215hp @ 3000rpm, 450lb/ft @ 2000rpm, ~20lbs of boost (not 100% on what wastegate was set at) , 2 valves per cylinder, 17.5:1 CR the 99+ Superduty's were 250hp @ 2700, 500lb/ft @ 2300rpm, and were factory intercooled

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6.0 DI (PSD) 365CI ~1000ish lbs fully dressed

6.0 DI (PSD) Turbo Ford specs: 325hp @ 3300rpm, 560lb/ft @ 2000rpm, ~28lbs of boost, 4 valves per cylinder, 18.0:1 CR and were factory intercooled

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6.4 DI (PSD) 390CI ~1100ish lbs fully dressed

6.4 DI (PSD) Turbo Ford specs: 350hp @ 3000rpm, 650lb/ft @ 2000rpm, ~??lbs of boost, 4 valves per cylinder, 17.5:1 CR and were factory intercooled

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6.7 DI (PSD - Non IH) - 409CI ~1100ish lbs fully dressed

6.7 DI (PSD - Non IH) Turbo Ford specs: 400hp @ 2800, 800lb/ft @ 1600rpm, ~??lbs of boost, 4 valves per cylinder, 17.5:1 CR and were factory intercooled

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So, looking at the specs and designs over the years..... the factory did what was needed to make power, and satisy the EPA.... in doing so... they Decerased the Compression ration, Increased Boost, Added and Intercooler and added valves.... notice the 6.0 and after is 4 valves per cyl..... but overall weight did not change... that does not mean the individual parts may be lighter or heavier... I am sure they are..... but that give you an idea of what IH and Ford did, to make the numbers on the engines.....

 

[hairyboxnoogle]

sounds like we have similar power bands in mind. what i really want is huge torque (maybe, 5-600 ft-lbs. more is always better though!) off of idle that only builds to bout 2300 rpm. im more interested in the torque than the hp, and id be happy as long as the torque doesnt fall any lower than what it is at idle, when its revvin it up. i want the 4k governor just for extra usable RPM. i used to have a 91 F250 with a 460, and i routinely bounced it off of the governor at 4600, and it was completely stock!

I dont think you will have a problem with the torque dropping off before 2k. Usually when you go from NA to turbo it moves the power band up, esspecially if you change the cam specs and fuel rate / curve and timing. Was talking about this with a guy on another board. He said with dps turbo cal. pump stage 1s and 3700 governer he hit peak tq at 2200 and hp at 3600. Alot of that depends how much fuel you can give the engine and how much it can burn. For instance if youre not fully boosting at 1800 rpms, but are at 2200 that might explain the higher powerband.

 

[hairyboxnoogle]

6.7 DI (PSD - Non IH) - 409CI ~1100ish lbs fully dressed

6.7 DI (PSD - Non IH) Turbo Ford specs: 400hp @ 2800, 800lb/ft @ 1600rpm, ~??lbs of boost, 4 valves per cylinder, 17.5:1 CR and were factory intercooled

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I dont care who you are, that is impressive... that much power, at that low of an rpm... is nuts.

 

[snicklas]

I dont care who you are, that is impressive... that much power, at that low of an rpm... is nuts.

I have not driven one, but I have heard they are a pulling monster..... they are also very quiet. I was on the way home a couple of weeks ago, it was a nice evening and I had the windows down. I was in the car, so a quiet ride except for the wind. Here in the Indy area, the state runs a "hoosier helper" service the runs Ford Vans, and now they have a few F-Series pickups, with an enclosed utility body and 6.7PSD Power. These truck run the highways helping stranded motoists off the road, change a tire, have gas onboard etc.... One of them passed me, on the left... and the only sound I heard was the wind and tire noise from it...... there was no diesel rattle, no turbo whistle.... NOTHING!!!!!!!

 

[rjjp]

...
7.3 IDI Turbo Ford specs: 190hp @ 3000rpm, 338lb/ft @ 1600 rpm, ~12lbs of boost (not 100% on what wastegate was set at) , 2 valves per cylinder, 21.5:1 CR

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7.3 DI (PSD) 444CI ~1000ish lbs fully dressed

7.3 DI (PSD) Turbo Ford specs: 215hp @ 3000rpm, 450lb/ft @ 2000rpm, ~20lbs of boost (not 100% on what wastegate was set at) , 2 valves per cylinder, 17.5:1 CR the 99+ Superduty's were 250hp @ 2700, 500lb/ft @ 2300rpm, and were factory intercooled

...

IDI turbo was 388 lb/ft and 4-5lbs boost.
First Gen Powerstroke was non wastegated.

 

[hairyboxnoogle]

I have not driven one, but I have heard they are a pulling monster..... they are also very quiet. I was on the way home a couple of weeks ago, it was a nice evening and I had the windows down. I was in the car, so a quiet ride except for the wind. Here in the Indy area, the state runs a "hoosier helper" service the runs Ford Vans, and now they have a few F-Series pickups, with an enclosed utility body and 6.7PSD Power. These truck run the highways helping stranded motoists off the road, change a tire, have gas onboard etc.... One of them passed me, on the left... and the only sound I heard was the wind and tire noise from it...... there was no diesel rattle, no turbo whistle.... NOTHING!!!!!!!

My grandparents have an '11. It is veeerrry quiet. and the go pedal gets excited really easy, you kinda have to watch it because the thing will straight up take off when youre not payin attention.

 

[racer30]

The rist pin was banging back and forth in the cylinder and groved both the front and back of the cylinder 1/4 inch deep but it was still centered in the rod. It had spun the rod bearing in that hole and bashed the piston to death. It was working on killing another when the guy shut it down. he sold it to me because " It had a Knock" that was the first of 5 IDI engines I have bought for my build. 2 turbo engine's and 3 non turbo 7.3's I have all the parts I need to do my build just need new pistons and gaskets. This engine is going in my Motor Home to replace a Detroit 8.2

 

[blown84]

I dont think you will have a problem with the torque dropping off before 2k. Usually when you go from NA to turbo it moves the power band up, esspecially if you change the cam specs and fuel rate / curve and timing. Was talking about this with a guy on another board. He said with dps turbo cal. pump stage 1s and 3700 governer he hit peak tq at 2200 and hp at 3600. Alot of that depends how much fuel you can give the engine and how much it can burn. For instance if youre not fully boosting at 1800 rpms, but are at 2200 that might explain the higher powerband.

well, remember, im gonna have boost at idle cause of the blower. the goal is for bottom end and mid-range torque.

at work, all we have are ford F250s and 350s. a couple of old 7.3s are still around, but the old fleet trucks are 6.0s, and all of the supervisors trucks are either 6.4s or 6.7s. the complain bout havin to take em into the shop a lot, but all of them pull 12,000+ lb trailers all over, usually close to 1500 miles a week. not to mention they pretty much NEVER get shut off except for when the super goes home (and they even drive em home), and to get worked on.

 

[rjjp]

not to mention they pretty much NEVER get shut off except for when the super goes home (and they even drive em home), and to get worked on.

That's good, equipment breaks when you shut it down.

 

[icanfixall]

All the 6.9 and 7.3 pistons have a very good wrist pin and snap ring retainer in them. They are a floating pin type. No room for an extra keeper either. A broken piston can not be compared with a piston operating in any application as to its failure possibility. If a pin wore deep grooves in the cylinder walls it had to be missing and running for a long time. Actually I'm surprised the rod and pin didn't open a window first instead of just wearing grooves in the bore.. Sounds like a tuff engine to me.

 

[Hyde]

I know its an old thread but no one actually said what breaks first at 4500+ rpm

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