head cylinder rebuild questions

[IDIoit]

so, i have a set of heads in the shop.
i have not gotten the report on the mag and pressure test yet.
im hoping they pass.

anyways, i am having the shop install new valves, guides, springs, and retainers in it.

should i change the pre-cups while im there?
i could not see any obvious flaws.

what about seats? as long as they can be ground at the same angles as the valves, i should be ok??

on my gassers i have always had a multi angle cuts on the valves and seats.
does the same apply to these IDI's even tho theres no A/F present?

ive been looking for some iconel valves, but have not tracked down any.
id really like to buy a new set. the heads are N/A heads.
and i will be putting new valves in it, even if they have to be stainless.

valve springs...
im going to be running a typ4 cam that i purchased offa Russ,
he's been busier than... busy.
anyone know the specified spring rating?

looks like ill have to bring the kids home in the 6 door with a seaping head gasket.
there is moisture in the oil, but its not milkshake.

new studs, gaskets, and lifters are ordered.
still waiting on the word for some HS's

yes i know our IDI's dont need them, but i want them!

 

[riotwarrior]

Multi angle valve grind will not hurt thats for certain.

If precups ok I would leave em alone myself

Comp cams 910 springs iirc cant recall shim set or installed height. Always check for coil bind!!! However I doubt uou will see it.

Justin has some studs should be ok try him

Hero

 

[icanfixall]

Its what Al just posted. We really do not need a 3 angle grind because we do not have the speed that a gasser has for air flow. I recall my inconel valves had a number 2001 on the bag and the box. Just can't recall the brand. I do remember they were made in Brasil because of the mercury used when making any valves. Only the exhaust seats can be replaced. Be sure the shop knows the proper recession of the intake and exhaust. I'm guessing but I think Russ used an 80 thou shim under his springs. Now I'm only guessing. Funny how a person recalls something special but can't remember something easy.

 

[TahoeTom]

Here is the page on valves from the manual. Russ has a source for stainless valves.

 

[laserjock]

I thought Russ told me 0.030 shim when going to his cam was a good starting point. I don't know if that was for the Comp 910 springs or just stockers though. I seem to remember a discussion about this a long while back. We as a collective probably need to get that information together and get a sticky made for it or a tech article. It's probably all in here.... somewhere...

 

[no mufflers]

Not to get off topic, but I just bought the typ4 cam. do I need to change the valve springs?

 

[typ4]

New stock springs with a .030 shim is a good starting point, The new springs I get are a little stiffer than stock. But much better than worn springs. I have never used the comp 910.

a multi angle valve job is a good idea, just keep the seat width correct.
If the valves are a little deep its ok, since we have such high compression.
Inconel is overkill. I have NEVER seen a valve failure, its always a spring breaking, usually due to a bad guide cooking the spring.

 

[IDIoit]

Not to get off topic, but I just bought the typ4 cam. do I need to change the valve springs?

as i am no expert, everytime ive went to a performance cam in my gassers, ive always changed the springs usually depending on the type of cam.
(solid flat tappet vs hydraulic flat tappet vs roller anything vs the amount of lift)
it made sense to me to change springs. as my springs are 30 years old.
these IDI's dont rev too high so spring wear is at a minimum, but as Russ said, a guide can eat a spring.
im planning on not messing with this engine for a long time after i get it back together, so new springs are on my bucket list.
if youre on a budget shimming will be ok, but its alot harder to change a spring while the heads are on.

New stock springs with a .030 shim is a good starting point, The new springs I get are a little stiffer than stock. But much better than worn springs. I have never used the comp 910.

a multi angle valve job is a good idea, just keep the seat width correct.
If the valves are a little deep its ok, since we have such high compression.
Inconel is overkill. I have NEVER seen a valve failure, its always a spring breaking, usually due to a bad guide cooking the spring.

c'mon Russ, there is no such thing as overkill

whats " a little stiffer" to you?

 

[icanfixall]

Well I was not sure bout the shims so there it is from Russ. Just a note about our stock springs.. Both intake and exhaust are the same pressure and length. To me that sounds fishy. Normally in a gasser the intake is a heavier spring than the exhaust because of the valve weights.. But not in our engines. AND... We run the same spring in all lines of the idi be it na or turbo.. Talk about overkill and bullet proof....

 

[laserjock]

What springs do you recommend Russ? I am in the really near future going to have a conversation with Promar, and I was planning to tell them to use the Comp springs with your cam but if you have a better/different suggestion I'm all ears.

 

[IDIoit]

Well I was not sure bout the shims so there it is from Russ. Just a note about our stock springs.. Both intake and exhaust are the same pressure and length. To me that sounds fishy. Normally in a gasser the intake is a heavier spring than the exhaust because of the valve weights.. But not in our engines. AND... We run the same spring in all lines of the idi be it na or turbo.. Talk about overkill and bullet proof....

i only run different I&E springs when im doing a radical build. all of my mild builds (under 600 hp) have the same spring rating throughout the intake and exhaust.

 

[IDIoit]

SO, my heads passed with flying colors.
the deck is near perfect, at a .003 difference on the gauge, no big deal!

the intake valves are golden.

the exhaust valves are BTFU.
so im looking at a set of black nitrided valves, but at 54 bucks a piece, and a 2 week lead time,
im looking for something else.

21-4N SS valves are good to upwards of 1600*
iconels are ideal
SS may be good enough.

anyone ever do business with Grumpys in Oregon?
there working on a set of iconels for me.

and valve springs with a 250 psi rating.

 

[laserjock]

I'd call Russ about valves if you are okay with SS.

 

[riotwarrior]

250 psi spring...that open or closed rating?

 

[IDIoit]

thats a test rating, as shown in toms post above, im guessing 3/4 compressed?

i have a PM into Russ, im sure hell get back to me when he gets a chance.

Grumpys quoted me 53 a piece for iconel.
and 13.50 a piece for a steel stellite coating.
i dont really want to spend 400 on a set of 8 exhaust valves, but if i do, ill be going with the black nitride.

the black nitride are good to 2000* id melt a piston before i damaged a valve.

i really should just drop a set of 21-4N ss valves in it and be done with it.

play money is super low right now!
just spent madd loot on new carpet before the babies get here.

but if i gotta dip into my savings, so be it.

Grumpys pointed me in the direction of summit racing.com for springs.
kinda wish i had a definitive answer.
ill call my cousin and see what they have.