Glow Plug Idea Question

ttman4

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Hi in the Cascades, Nearly- Redmond,Oregon
How you guys wiring in your GP button?
I got my momentary push button wired into the ground wire coming from GP controller. Just cut that wire, ran to push button, then to a good ground. I turn key on, push button & GP lite comes on. Colder it is little bit longer lite stays on...10-12-15 sec. Lite goes off & I either hit start key, or turn key off , then back on & push button again. Second time I push button lite comes on for few sec less.
& I always smoke.....that tells me Bessie still has life in her. LOL LOL
 

ISPKI

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Usually when people talk about a manual glowplug button, they are eliminating the controller so the wiring ends up being a little more complicated.
 

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ISPKI

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So, rather than swapping to a 6v power supply, you should be able to add another resistor into the circuit to bring the voltage and amperage down. There are resistor holders that allow you to swap the resistor out for testing but the resistor will allow you to control how low you want the voltage and in turn, will extend how long it takes for the GPs to glow.

On one hand, making the GPs heat slower will reduce the shock to the assembly which, for most metal assemblies, is a point of failure. That depends heavily on what the heating element and sleeve are actually made of.

On the other hand, lowering the input amperage would cause the GPs to heat for longer periods of time, which may take a toll on them as well. The advantage, aside from shocking the metal, is that the slow heating would disperse the heat throughout the combustion chamber. The GP would still hit the same peak temperature but the whole ambient temperature of the chamber would be higher once it does.
 

Poorman

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Thanks Bart, yesterday I left them on for 3 minutes, then afterburn for at least 20 sec., (7.95volt)started fast but smoked about the same as the day before at 30 seconds, almost acceptable. I haven't gone out this morning, I'll check to see if the plugs survived the longer burn and then shorten the wire by 5 feet and see what the change is. I'd like to find the point where they fail at three minutes, then back up a volt to where they survive for three minutes and then stick with that and then only burn for 30 seconds, seems like that would allow for lots of error and not over work the plugs.
I'll plug it in sometime soon, that should show if there is oil in the intake. I know very little about the CDR valve, it is a bit of an oily mess, I'll do some searching and get up to speed with that. Does anyone know of a block heater that would work with a 1000 watt generator. That's all I carry when I'm camping, it's not enough, I really wouldn't care if it took 4 hours, at least I'd have a backup plan. I usually camp in extremely remote areas.
 

ISPKI

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I believe the block heater is rated for 1000W, so youre generator technically can power it but youd be pushing it to its limits.
 

ttman4

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Usually when people talk about a manual glowplug button, they are eliminating the controller so the wiring ends up being a little more complicated.
Thanks @ISPKI, I never knew this. I've always just cut the black ground wire & run it thru my button on my rigs.
So if I understand, by doing it per your attachment, the GP's would heat as long as button is pushed?
On my rigs I heat till lite goes out, turn key off-back on & heat some more if needed. Each time the duration gets shorter. And I don't have the continual cycling after I start.
 

The_Josh_Bear

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Thanks @ISPKI, I never knew this. I've always just cut the black ground wire & run it thru my button on my rigs.
So if I understand, by doing it per your attachment, the GP's would heat as long as button is pushed?
On my rigs I heat till lite goes out, turn key off-back on & heat some more if needed. Each time the duration gets shorter. And I don't have the continual cycling after I start.
Yep, they heat as long as you hold down the button. I've been running this way for a long time, love it. Controller eliminated so one less thing on top of my engine, too. And I can't get stranded if the controller ever goes kaput(cause it's gone!)
 

ISPKI

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Yep! Thats the Idea! The controller is kind of expensive and you cant really tell if its about to fail, they just go from working to not working aaand you get stranded. Manual temporary switch has it's own risks (low quality switches get stuck on and fry your system) but is as reliable as your craftsmanship. I tried one of those cheapo momentary switches for about 3 days before I chucked it and picked up a larger industrial machine button. More costly, around 20$ but solid metal construction with a big sealed push button. Never had an issue with it in years.
 

Poorman

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So I shortened the wire by 4 feet and got a reading of 8.3 volts, held the button for 3 minutes and starting was the same, no noticeable change, fast start, just too much smoke. So I plugged it in for 7 hours(forgot about it) the engine was warm to touch, I glowed for 30 seconds and no change, fast start but smoky and very subdued for the first 15 seconds, then it perked up and started cleaning out. I know this probably sounds normal to most but I've lived with this truck forever and this ain't normal. On a heater it always has started instantly with maybe one puff the size of a smokers exhale, and then comes to a smooth idle. I'm going to quit playing with the glow system for now and try to figure this out.
I suspect the cold advance or maybe the timing has changed, this last trip I do remember thinking it was running very smooth and quiet, I normally use ear plugs. I have power to the advance but not sure how to tell if it actually works, I think I'll run it a few miles and see if I can feel it go off, it's always obvious, then maybe jump it when I get back to see if I can hear a change. I replaced the IP and injectors 13000 miles and five years ago, timed it by ear and it's ran great. How often do these engines need retiming? What would make it go out of time? Maybe all these cold starts I've been doing and never letting it warm up has gunked it up, I'll go for a spin.
I found a 600 watt block heater, waiting for a reply on fitment, thanks, I had no idea they made different ones. THANKS
 

nelstomlinson

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If you're trying to figure out how much of what wire to use as a resistor, here is a helpful table:
 

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nelstomlinson

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Eight glow plugs in parallel are going to have a total resistance 1/8th their individual resistance, so about 0.0125 Ohms cold, and more when hot.

12.5 feet of 10AWG is going to have about 0.0125 Ohms resistance, so in series it would roughly double the resistance and drop about half the voltage when the plugs are cold. As the plugs heat up and their resistance increases current draw will fall and the 10AWG will drop fewer volts, leaving more volts for the plugs. Watts = volts times amps. Of course, the wire is heating, too. From memory at 170F the 10AWG is going to have a resistance of around 0.015 Ohms.
 

The_Josh_Bear

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So I shortened the wire by 4 feet and got a reading of 8.3 volts, held the button for 3 minutes and starting was the same, no noticeable change, fast start, just too much smoke. So I plugged it in for 7 hours(forgot about it) the engine was warm to touch, I glowed for 30 seconds and no change, fast start but smoky and very subdued for the first 15 seconds, then it perked up and started cleaning out. I know this probably sounds normal to most but I've lived with this truck forever and this ain't normal. On a heater it always has started instantly with maybe one puff the size of a smokers exhale, and then comes to a smooth idle. I'm going to quit playing with the glow system for now and try to figure this out.
I suspect the cold advance or maybe the timing has changed, this last trip I do remember thinking it was running very smooth and quiet, I normally use ear plugs. I have power to the advance but not sure how to tell if it actually works, I think I'll run it a few miles and see if I can feel it go off, it's always obvious, then maybe jump it when I get back to see if I can hear a change. I replaced the IP and injectors 13000 miles and five years ago, timed it by ear and it's ran great. How often do these engines need retiming? What would make it go out of time? Maybe all these cold starts I've been doing and never letting it warm up has gunked it up, I'll go for a spin.
I found a 600 watt block heater, waiting for a reply on fitment, thanks, I had no idea they made different ones. THANKS
This could be timing, but sounds more like leaky injectors. If you haven't run a lube/cleaner in a while I would do that with it overnight, then go work her out for a while to get nice and hot.
If you have done that it could still be injectors, assuming the timing is good. It doesn't take much for timing to be "off" but I've found these engines to be very tolerant of timing in regards to starting smoke. And the timing doesn't usually change much, except with regards to winter diesel. But anything is possible!

Not having the advance working is a 3° loss in advance. Around freezing this might be enough to make smoke clouds, but I've never experienced it.
 

IDIBRONCO

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Having to wear earplugs when your engine is running is too much advance on your timing. You timed the IP by ear when you replaced it and now you think that it was acting normally. You can't time these by ear and be in the correct range. You may be close, but that's all.
 

Big Bart

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Having to wear earplugs when your engine is running is too much advance on your timing. You timed the IP by ear when you replaced it and now you think that it was acting normally. You can't time these by ear and be in the correct range. You may be close, but that's all.

Timing on these trucks is more important than most think. Also the timing changes with aging injectors. Timing that is off can cause hard starts, overheating, lack of power, and poor mpg to name a few.

Having a timing device is really not optional, it is critical. There may be some who did it enough by timing machine to notice key sounds and get very close by ear On a solid running truck. But that would likely only be 3-5% of the members here.

To IDIbronco’s point, to many think because there truck starts and runs their timing is on, likely it is off 2-5 degrees. The $200 investment in a timing machine is well worth the reward.
 

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