Ford Sues Navistar?

kenkillsr

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http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/
Ford sues Navistar on truck engines
Breach of supply contract alleged

By James P. Miller
Tribune staff reporter

January 12, 2007

A contract dispute between Ford Motor Co. and Navistar International Corp. became public Thursday when the automaker sued Navistar in state court in Michigan for allegedly refusing to live up to terms of a long-standing supply accord.

For a decade, Warrenville-based Navistar has been the sole supplier of the diesel engines that Ford puts into its heavy-duty pickup trucks.

Now, however, the automaker and its key supplier have locked horns over the price Navistar is charging Ford, and also over the extent of Navistar's financial obligations in warranty claims involving its engine.

Ford's claims are "totally without merit," a Navistar spokesman said, adding that the maker of trucks and diesel engines intends to "vigorously respond in court."

Navistar has been providing Ford with a 6-liter diesel engine for several years, Ford's lawsuit notes, and in late 2006 it also began supplying the automaker with a new 6.4-liter engine.

"The parties have previously been able to negotiate and reach agreement on the prices of the engines Navistar produced for Ford," the complaint says, but with regard to the 6.4-liter engine Navistar has altered its bargaining stance and "failed to act in good faith."

In fact, Ford's lawsuit says, Navistar has threatened that unless Ford pays the price Navistar is demanding, Navistar would refuse to ship the new engine to Ford. That move would breach the supply agreement, it contends.

In addition, Ford says, Navistar is not complying with its warranty-sharing obligations. Under the agreement, Navistar is supposed to pay a portion of the costs Ford encounters for engine-related warranty repairs. But Navistar has refused to pay the amounts Ford says it is owed, according to the lawsuit.

In response, Ford took the unusual step of "debiting" Navistar for a portion of those costs. In other words, Ford is withholding money it owes Navistar for engines, in order to recover the money Ford says Navistar owes it under the warranty agreement.

Ford is asking the court to rule that the "debit" is proper under the circumstances, and it also asks the judge to order Navistar to reimburse Ford for future warranty costs.

The automaker also asks the court to issue a declaratory judgment on what Navistar can charge for the 6.4-liter engine.

The debit "is simply a business transaction intended to resolve a dispute we have with [Navistar]," Ford said in a statement. "Regrettably," it said, because Navistar has not cooperated, "we have no other choice but to take the debit and file the lawsuit."

Ford and Navistar also have a joint venture that manufactures medium-duty Ford trucks for sale in North America.

[email protected]
Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune
 
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Cowboy2199

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Ford sues Navistar??

Oh hell. What is this going to do for Ford now? HMM, possibly cummins in the future? I think that would be a good move for Ford. Problem there is that then Cummins would just about have a monopoly on the LT market. I mean Navistar barely got the 6.4L to Ford to get the first 07-6.4L trucks out on time, and now they are charging too much for the engines, and not paying for warranty repairs.. HMM, I think Ford needs to get away from International. Its not like Ford doesnt own over HALF the stock in International. I think if they wanted to, they could pressure them into doing what they wanted, if they really wanted to. I dont see why this is going to court.
 

fairlane_68

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Ford owns stock already in Cummins, so they make money no matter which engines goes in their trucks. I know they own stock in Cummins, but I believe that they may own CONTROLLING stock. The thing is, since the 6.0L came out, the finger-pointing started when that engine started having so many problems. Ford took the brunt of public criticism for the poor design and engineering of the engine, while Navistar went back to the drawing board. The 6.0L is the shortest-running diesel in Ford's history. It wasn't a money-maker for them, and they're looking to Navistar for a little support. They're not hating and fighting back and forth, they're just doing what big corporations always do.
 

tgatch

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Ford owns stock already in Cummins, so they make money no matter which engines goes in their trucks. I know they own stock in Cummins, but I believe that they may own CONTROLLING stock. The thing is, since the 6.0L came out, the finger-pointing started when that engine started having so many problems. Ford took the brunt of public criticism for the poor design and engineering of the engine, while Navistar went back to the drawing board. The 6.0L is the shortest-running diesel in Ford's history. It wasn't a money-maker for them, and they're looking to Navistar for a little support. They're not hating and fighting back and forth, they're just doing what big corporations always do.

Geez when is this "Ford Owns Cummins" thing gonna die???

Right fro the Cummins Website

Does Ford own Cummins?


No, Ford does not own any part of Cummins Inc.

See for yourself right here on Cummins' website


The 6.9 was in the truck from 1983 until 1988 when the IDI 7.3 was brought about. The 7.3 was pretty much a punched 6.9. The Powerstroke 7.3 came about in 1995. Now the 6.0 came out in 03.25 and now the 6.4 is in the 08 trucks. The 6.4 is merely a punched and twin turbo 6.0. The6.0 has been in the truck since 03.25 until the 2007. That is ALMOST 4 years.

So let's see

6.9 5 years
7.3 IDI 7 years
7.3 Powerstroke 8.25 years
6.0 Powerstroke 3.75 years

I don't think they have done as bad as you seem to imply. Two major reasons for the 6.0 change out. First, I personally believe that the 6.0 was at its SAFE power limit from Ford. I mean it is turned up well beyond the HP rating of the VT365. Sure you can get more HP out of the 6.0, but I think the 325HP was a balancing act of trying to get longevity versus power out of the 6.0. Second, and probably the larger issue is the emissions laws that the EPA keeps throwing down on diesels.
 
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Cowboy2199

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The 6.0L is the shortest-running diesel in Ford's history. It wasn't a money-maker for them, and they're looking to Navistar for a little support.


I would like to correct your thoughts about this statement.

Ford did not discontinue use of the 6.0L because it wasnt a money maker for them. That may very well be true, but the chief reason the 6.0 is out and the 6.4 is in, is due to emissions standards. The 6.0 is not capable of meeting 2007 emissions standards for diesel engines.

You can do some research, Ford wasnt the only one who couldnt meet standards with their current engine(s). Cummins, Detroit, Caterpillar, and Mercedes all had to revamp their diesels to meet the 07 standards, and handle the low sulfur fuel.

You really ought to check out the new Caterpillar C-15 design for OTR trucks. They have already burned a couple of test trucks to the ground because of their design.. LOL That came from a Master OTR truck Tech with alot of connections to CAT.
 

tbirdfiend281

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Geez when is this "Ford Owns Cummins" thing gonna die???

Right fro the Cummins Website



See for yourself right here on Cummins' website


The 6.9 was in the truck from 1983 until 1988 when the IDI 7.3 was brought about. The 7.3 was pretty much a punched 6.9. The Powerstroke 7.3 came about in 1995. Now the 6.0 came out in 03.25 and now the 6.4 is in the 08 trucks. The 6.4 is merely a punched and twin turbo 6.0. The6.0 has been in the truck since 03.25 until the 2007. That is ALMOST 4 years.

So let's see

6.9 5 years
7.3 IDI 7 years
7.3 Powerstroke 8.25 years
6.0 Powerstroke 3.75 years

I don't think they have done as bad as you seem to imply. Two major reasons for the 6.0 change out. First, I personally believe that the 6.0 was at its SAFE power limit from Ford. I mean it is turned up well beyond the HP rating of the VT365. Sure you can get more HP out of the 6.0, but I think the 325HP was a balancing act of trying to get longevity versus power out of the 6.0. Second, and probably the larger issue is the emissions laws that the EPA keeps throwing down on diesels.


dont take this as in insult cuase it is not, but you have some misinformation, not on the cummins stuff, cuase you are dead on with that statement, but...

the 6.9 was a 2 bolt main engine, the 7.3 was a 4bolt main, and the extra size was obtained from a different crank i believe, but am not completely sure on

the 6.4 is apparently a completley diffrent motor then the 6.0, completly redisigned

6.0 is high pressure oil system to fire the injectors
6.4 is high pressure fuel system to fire the injectors, they went with this type of injection for a decrease in noise, better cold starting and decreased emessions. with the new high pressure fuel piezo injectors the inject process is considerably more persice then the 6.0 injection

from first glance, the bottom ends and heads look very similar, except for the new high pressure fuel system on the 6.4

also turbo system is completly different being 6.4 went to twin turbo as the 6.0 is single

i dont think they share many componenet at all, maybe sensors and wiring connectors, but thats always been how navistar has worked, since the 7.3 DI came out
 

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