Emergency 9/11 - Ran 6.9 on gasoline/diesel mix

[smokedacid]

Hi boys,

In the midst of a move and am marooned in a lordco parking lot with a truck & trailer that doesnt want to run.

I topped up from half my internal tank and got a jerry for the trip, and set out.

Got about 45 min into drive and engine started feeling weaker and weaker, wasnt making black smoke like when trailering ajd trying to make power on previous trips, but thought i mightve been overloaded, so just kept plugging along.

Eventually (45 min more) decided id stop and the motor was dying when i came off the gas (essentially had it matted for the past hour).

Have replaced fuel filter, drained tank, fresh diesel in, but wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction for whats next??

Sounds fuel starved, or woofy when i start it up but dies immediately, not a good barky diesel sound.

2 nights in rhe parking lot now, fighting off junkies would appreciate a bit of advice so i can either abandon my setup or get bigger parts coming my way if necessary.

Matt cooper(currently in abbotsford bc lol)

 

[smokedacid]

More info: 86 f350 6.9 , water separator bypassed, fuel system is all new and been thru filling filter + purging lines & injectors,

What a couple days!!!!!

 

[gnathv]

Any smoke coming out exhaust while cranking?

 

[gnathv]

Was filter empty and do you have good pressure and volume at schrader on filter head?

 

[smokedacid]

Have had white smoke last night since the last batch of repairing etc, but not getting any this morning.

Filter was refilled with first bad diesel, then drained and filled with good - got white smoke then but ran out of brains and energy after it wouldnt sustain an idle, had to mat the Accel to get 2000rpm and died immediately, nit a healthy critter.

Today i cant get it to run more than a cough with ether.

Filter is new and filled, seems like good pressure at the schrader valve.

Have had a friend grab a sample from the station, smells gassy, this is four days later.

Really appreciate it!!

 

[smokedacid]

I know more or less the common fuel / air leak problems with these motors and feel like i have a fairly good handle on it for purging and the commoner issues, getting good spurts at injectors when bleeding.

New return lines system, all new fuel lines, just completed a headgasket and refurb on most items in the last 5000km.

 

[Big Bart]

Some things to you can do onsite listed below. I agree with you, this sounds like fuel starvation not air intrusion. But could be either or both.

1) Try switching to your other tank. Perhaps that tank is plugged or the fuel has issues. Sometimes the tank transfer valve sticks between and chokes off the fuel too.
2) Confirm with a pressure gauge you have good pressure at the shrader valve on the fuel filter. (Fuel lines are not clogged and your lift pump is working.) You could also hook up a temporary electric lift pump if needed.) But if the lift pump is not working good, it would cause these symptoms too.
3) Confirm the the solenoid on top of the IP is working good. Strong click on and off. A weak or sticking solenoid could cause this issue.
4) Look for any diesel leaks that could be related. Return lines, line between IP and fuel filter.
5) Check your oil level and coolant level just in case. Look for any mixing of the two in case this is something like a head gasket. Smell your oil - smell burnt, smell like diesel, like????
6) Perhaps even try bleeding the system once again with all injector lines at the injector loose. (Some only do a couple.)
7) You did a lot of work to your truck recently. So double check that work, sometimes things just don't stick after a repair.

If you are getting good fuel and the right fuel pressure and volume to the IP. And the truck will not run, it would point to your IP has an issue. If that bad fuel actually was say 30-40% gas perhaps it wore down the vanes or did other damage to the IP. But they are pretty tough so keep looking.

Let us know what your are finding and we all will keep sending you some ideas. I would ask your buddy to get and keep a sample of that bad diesel. If visiably or via smell clearly has gasoline in it. You could hold the gas station liable for selling diluted diesel and for the damages to your truck. Could be some delivery driver dumped it in the wrong tank or a mix up at the refinery. Eitherway not your fault, rather theirs.

Send some pics of the engine compartment and those junkies!

 

[smokedacid]

1.The rear tank is kaput from previous owner, on the list to fix.

I have ran* motor direct from jerry to lift pump and get good flow from the schrader, will get a pressure gauge on my next parts run here and get an actual reading. We got the same "runs rough and slow at pinned throttle, dies immediately" when running from both jerrry & tank with known and checked piping.

3. Will check solenoid when my helpers return, but seems to be delivering fuel well enough to keep it open when floored? And seems funny for it to fail after the gas/fuel issue but not discounting anything.

4. Fuel system is fairly new and have gone over it multiple times, seems to be solid.

5. Oil level normal, coolant nice and fresh still, happy after my headgasket job (1st time mechanic on all of this so have a bit of pride in getting a truck running and WORKING again).

6. I have bled both individual and the whole fleet of injectors open at the same time, did not seem to effect operation. When the new fuel filter arrives i will thoroughly purge them and filter again.


Had another friend drop by stn and get some more diesel, speak to manager etc. She phoned me back and said theyre on it, checking receipts / sec cameras etc. Im currently waiting for a call back from their lawyers....

Ill snap a few pics of rhe junkies but theyre al asleep, its mid day now and theyre all tired after a night of being zombies. Ha

 

[Big Bart]

Some more thoughts and questions.


1) Did you replace/rebuilt your IP with all the other work? (They recommend rebuilding every 100K miles, but they can run for much longer.)

2) Did you remove the IP when you did the heads?

3) Have you done your IP timing recently. (Perhaps its off or the pump was slightly loose and moved.)

4) From other members who had bad IP solenoids, they can be tricky to diagnose. Often intermittent. Work then not, get stuck half on/half off. They can heat up and fail. (Truck runs, then dies.) They slide inside the body so you should hear and feel a good click on click off. If the clicks are anemic, probably your hail marry is to replace. After that I feel the IP is next on the list after all the work you did. Watch the video embedded in this thread. You will have a good idea of what to expect from the solenoid. Also, how to properly put one back in.


https://www.oilburners.net/threads/fuel-shut-off-solenoid-clicking-but-no-fuel-shutoff.88643/


So, check your fuel pressure when running. Should be getting 5PSI or more. If so, then look to the IP and the solenoid.


Also do you have any tow insurance? I have AAA platinum, so my tow vehicle and trailer get 200 miles for free. (Now that means you probably have to fight with the tow truck to get him to do it. He might say we are too busy to go that far. (6 hours round trip for him to go that far.) If so, call AAA and complain, these guys are under contract to do it!) So perhaps you can get out of ****** row to a shop who can help and a hotel that is comfortable while they do.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

Since running straight from Jerry can to the IP is giving the same problems my first two thoughts are:
1. Bad lift pump
2. clogged inlet screen at IP.
3. IP wore the heck out from gasoline mixed with diesel and now it's a core at best.

A lift pump can fail and the engine will still run ok. Not great but it will pull its own fuel.
So unless you have a filter that is hidden between the lift pump and the IP, I would say the IP is the problem.

The filter screen on the IP is hard to get to in the truck apparently:
https://www.oilburners.net/threads/ip-screen.20205/

Don't know how you're using the ether but it should be a **whiff** every 2 revs, as the engine is being cranked. Not a spray. And not outside the air filter, that just doesn't work like it used to. Gotta pull it.
Point is, it should run on ether or else there's compression issues that fuel can't fix.

Hope you get this thing back on the road, sounds like no fun.

 

[smokedacid]

No fun at all.

Spoke to gas manager guy who said my samples pullled arent worth **** compared to his, he sees no problem, sending it out today, but not our fault... Also he wouldnt recommend a legal battle because his lawyers are better than mine...oh and "just send me a quote from a shop for replacement" and we will see what we can do.



.... ....

Which is exactly what id say if i was trying to make a problem go away.

Super sus but trying to get a price on a fix / replacement is next to impossible...

He also lost his **** when i told him i recorded the call and that legally i would have to hwve told him before starting rhe call. ***.

So sick of this ****.

 

[Big Bart]

Don’t buy into his BS, your sample is legit. Especially because a 3rd party went and got it straight from the pump. Still legit if you had got it. Not so legit if out of your tank because it is now mixed with what was in it. Thus reasonable doubt.

Important part is get it tested by a qualified company to prove it. Take the report from them to court. If your pump is rebuilt have the rebuilder state in writing if they find gas in the pump and excessive wear. Then you take them to small claims court with all of your receipts. No lawyer needed and only costs you $50-80. Here is the thing, they will personally not award you for your time, just the parts and incidentals for the delay. They will award you for your friends time that he is going to charge you and give you a receipt for to help fix this. Which now 3 days at +$50 an hour! Plus any hotel, food, fuel, parts, towing, and other delay costs for both of you. But they won’t pay you for your time to fix. Now take to Ford or a mechanic and they will pay for their time. It’s not fair but how it works in many states.

He is correct you cannot use a call in court as evidence unless you asked if the person is willing to be recorded. But when you call and it says “This call may be recorded for training or other purposes”, know it is considered admissible as evidence but now you too can get it via a court order.

 

[snicklas]

The call thing depends on your States or Provinces laws....

For example, in Indiana, only 1 party on the call has to be aware the call is being recorded, for it to be admissible.. Yes, that means you call some one, and you record the call (you are aware of the recording) this means it is legit in court....

 

[SuperDave]

Have you checked for a plugged return line? Mine on my '88 f350 plugged at the selector valve and just ran worse and worse until it finally died. I've never gotten bad fuel so I don't know what the symptoms would be but it sounds like your return is restricted which causes high housing pressure in your injection pump shutting it down. Also high housing pressure messes with your timing making the engine sound much less like a diesel, kinda like when you press the mechanical advance lever at idle and the engine gets quieter.

 

[smokedacid]

The troubleshooting is over for now boys, will update in the future, hoping for a happy outcome, but need to do some recovery and real job work before she purrs again