Pulling my hair out with 6.9 fuel problem

Rogermiller

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Hello everyone! Longtime reader, but first time poster here… And I’m in a crisis. I think I’ve read every fuel related thread on here, and none match all the details of my problem. I’m expecting tons of replies stating ‘air intrusion in your return lines’ or ‘your shower head fell off’, but I really think I’m dealing with something weirder…

Back story on the truck: It’s a 1983 f-250 with a 6.9 and t-19. I bought and restored it about 15 years ago, as it was always a dream truck of mine. For the record, I’m an experienced mechanic and restorer. I mostly mess with old Mercedes and Ford products. My show cars are Mercedes, but main daily drivers are a ‘48 Ford pickup and a ‘29 Model A. This truck was also a daily for years, and I’ve put tons of miles on it hauling my camper and trailers for business. I installed the whole Banks Sidewinder kit in 2014 or so. This truck has always performed flawlessly, and I’m a huge fan of the 6.9 IDI.

About five years ago I parked it in a storage unit temporarily, as I had too many vehicles here at the house and needed them out of the way while I was building out my shop. I can’t stand to leave cars outside in the weather, so a few went to storage. It was meant to be for a month or so, but my wife suddenly passed away and life completely shut down. All those cars that were meant to sit for a month sat for five years.

I’m now having to move, and I’ve been working my way through those cars and selling them off. This truck, though, I intend to keep. It was in good working order when parked, and has been indoors the whole time. As the post title states, it has me pulling what little hair I have left out now!

I towed it to my shop, installed two new batteries, changed all fluids and filters, and since then I’ve been in an endless loop of effortless starts followed by a few minutes of perfect running and then a stumble and die. I’ve bypassed the tank selector valve and water separator, replaced every soft line in between, replaced the lift pump (original mechanical), added new fuel, and after every operation I bleed the air and fire it up only to have it die a few (maybe up to ten?) minutes later. Running the lift pump directly to a diesel jug is often mentioned as if it is a quick and easy thing to do… I will admit I haven’t done that.

What is consistent is a lack of fuel pressure at the schrader valve when it dies… But it has good pressure there at other times. At this point I’m thinking I have no choice but to pull the bed and see if something weird is going on in the tank. I tried to drop it, but the filler neck is a crispy critter. Before I cut it to remove I looked to see how hard a replacement was to obtain, and decided I better not mess it up. Time is somewhat of an issue right now… I NEED this truck back in action ASAP. I’m out in the sticks alone, so pulling the bed isn’t a very exciting prospect. Anyone have any brilliant ideas before I try to hire help to remove the bed? If you’ve read this far, thank you
 

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Rogermiller

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Oh, and to add… yes, I’m sure the new lift pump is installed under the cam lobe, and yes I replaced the looped line going to it. I don’t think any hard lines have intrusion, as this truck has been in Texas all its life and is completely rust-free…

This is reminding me of many years ago when I bought a diesel Kawasaki Mule from my neighbor… It was bogging down and dying. He sent it to the stealership where they did $4,500 worth of work to it. Ridiculous stuff… new seat, exhaust, injection pump, etc to make it like new. He brought it home and the next day it bogged down and died again while his guys were feeding cows. He took it back to the dealer and they basically threw up their hands and said ‘we don’t know’.

He said ‘Just take it on trade and give me a new one’. They offered him $500. He was pissed, having just paid $4,500. He took it home and put it behind the barn, and bought a new one from the competing dealer. I eventually asked him what he was going to do with it. He said “$500 and it’s yours. I don’t ever want to see it again. Just wasn’t giving it to them for that!”

I took it home and went through it. Found a dead June bug in the pickup tube for the primer bulb. Apparently it was floating in and out. I drove the crap out of that mule for several years, and then got $2,500 trade in on a brand new one when I decided it was completely shot…

Now I’m thinking all these years later that I’m him, and this is something equally stupid that I’m just too stressed out and exhausted to find.
 
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Fredrickson

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Sitting in a storage unit for a while ...critters and bugs can be sneaky given enough time..
I was going to suggest the diesel jug/lift pump test..but I see it is on your to-do list...
Maybe temporarily swapping in some clear fuel line to see what is happening with the fuel flow?

It might tell you which half of the truck has the problem..front or back :)

After it stalls/dies.. is there still fuel up through the IP and filter?
 

Nero

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Welcome to the forums! Sweet looking rig!

Have you tried running out of a bucket yet? That'll eliminate from the lift pump back if that's the issue.

These injection pumps don't like sitting, they get sticky internally and can cause weird things to happen. Try running it out of a bucket spiked with a diesel fuel cleaner. I typically rely on Standadyne cleaner or Power Service fuel addative. If the govorner is sticking, it can cause the engine to idle down so fast it can't recover and stall at idle, may take some driving to loosen er up.
 

ihc1470

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Judging from your pictures it has two fuel tanks, do you have same issue on either tank? How full are the tanks? Have you tried running it with fuel filler caps off to make sure it is not a venting issue? If that checks the next step I personally would do is the clean bucket. If it fails that then I would pull the return fitting out of the fuel pump and make sure it works properly and blow out the return lines to the tank with air. If you are still having issues I would try the ATF trick. If it was running well when it went into storage it would make me think vents are plugged or pump is gummed up a little on the inside from sitting.
 

Rogermiller

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Judging from your pictures it has two fuel tanks, do you have same issue on either tank? How full are the tanks? Have you tried running it with fuel filler caps off to make sure it is not a venting issue? If that checks the next step I personally would do is the clean bucket. If it fails that then I would pull the return fitting out of the fuel pump and make sure it works properly and blow out the return lines to the tank with air. If you are still having issues I would try the ATF trick. If it was running well when it went into storage it would make me think vents are plugged or pump is gummed up a little on the inside from sitting.
Tank selector valve is bypassed, as that was my original suspected culprit. I’m currently plumbed to the front tank only, which is reading around half. I’m a little dubious of the gauge accuracy, though, as it didn’t seem to change when I dumped a five gallon jug in.

Yes, I’ve tried with/without caps.

By ‘ATF’ trick, are you referring to filling the filter and letting the pump sit overnight after ingesting? I’ve done that twice with a cocktail of ATF and Diesel Kleen.
 

Rogermiller

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Welcome to the forums! Sweet looking rig!

Have you tried running out of a bucket yet? That'll eliminate from the lift pump back if that's the issue.

These injection pumps don't like sitting, they get sticky internally and can cause weird things to happen. Try running it out of a bucket spiked with a diesel fuel cleaner. I typically rely on Standadyne cleaner or Power Service fuel addative. If the govorner is sticking, it can cause the engine to idle down so fast it can't recover and stall at idle, may take some driving to loosen er up.
Thanks! Have not tried running off a bucket yet… After how hard I fought to get that hose ON the new lift pump, I’m not really excited about taking it off again. Maybe I’ll splice in where I removed the selector valve. That will at least eliminate the tank itself. I really don’t think there are any issues with the IP, as when it runs it sounds perfect throughout the rpm range. When I installed the new filter I filled it with a cocktail of ATF and Diesel Kleen, ran for a minute and let it sit overnight. What do you mean by ‘the governor’?
 

Rogermiller

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Sitting in a storage unit for a while ...critters and bugs can be sneaky given enough time..
I was going to suggest the diesel jug/lift pump test..but I see it is on your to-do list...
Maybe temporarily swapping in some clear fuel line to see what is happening with the fuel flow?

It might tell you which half of the truck has the problem..front or back :)

After it stalls/dies.. is there still fuel up through the IP and filter?
It was a clean and well-sealed unit on concrete with no signs of critter activity, but it’s always a possibility. Mud daubers seem to find their way into anything here and have given me hell over the years plugging things.

When it dies, the filter is half-drained and fuel barely sputters at the schrader valve. Stream is strong until then. That’s what’s so confusing… If the lift pump is sucking air or pulling from a blocked pickup, how is it intermittent? That’s why I added fuel, thinking maybe the gauge was lying and it was right at the level of a broken shower head.
 

Nero

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Internally on the pump there is a governor that prevents the engine from stalling when you let off the throttle. It can get sticky and cause strange issues at times. But since you already ran a bunch of fuel cleaner and ATF, probably isn't the issue...

What about your fuel return? If the check ball on the injection pump gets plugged, it'll run fine at idle for a little, then stall due to high case pressure.

It'll make a mess, but take the return elbow off and the check ball fitting, see how she runs.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

Rogermiller

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Internally on the pump there is a governor that prevents the engine from stalling when you let off the throttle. It can get sticky and cause strange issues at times. But since you already ran a bunch of fuel cleaner and ATF, probably isn't the issue...

What about your fuel return? If the check ball on the injection pump gets plugged, it'll run fine at idle for a little, then stall due to high case pressure.

It'll make a mess, but take the return elbow off and the check ball fitting, see how she runs.

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Thanks for the picture! How would that contribute to no fuel at the schrader valve, though? And I have run very high RPMs, too, for several minutes at a time. Just want to verify before making that ‘big mess’…

I’m really leaning towards the issue being in the tank, unfortunately… The only way to know for sure will be to eliminate the tank. Heading to the store to get some more fuel line and refill my diesel jug.
 

Nero

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Shoot I missed the part about the schrader. Definitely sounds like a fuel suction issue if you're getting air in your filter and sputtering from the schrader.
 

IDIBRONCO

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You could install a fuel pressure gauge to keep an eye on things. You can probably find a 1/8" NPT port on the fuel filter head. Even if you have to remove the Schrader valve housing to install the gauge. A wore out injector pump can cause too much fuel to go out through the return system. I don't know if something similar could happen due to it sitting.
 

Rogermiller

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UPDATE!!!

Truck ran like a top off the jug, and I have narrowed the problem down to the tank… I’m glad to know my mechanicals are fine, but I was really hoping it wouldn’t be IN the tank. I attached a fluid extractor (giant syringe type) to the line and couldn’t even pull the plunger back. 100% blockage. I then tried to blow it out, and with serious effort (both hands on syringe and plunger against my chest) I was able to slowly pump air in and heard bubbles. Did this for a while with no change in either direction.

I can’t imagine what sort of debris could create that strong of a clog. Is it possible that 1/3 of a tank of diesel somehow solidified?? That would explain the stuck gauge, despite being topped off with fresh diesel. I’ve dealt with clogged pickup tubes before, but never one that couldn’t be blown out…
 

IDIBRONCO

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Probably the worst case would be if there's algae inside the tank. I doubt that diesel fuel would or could harden up after sitting for 5 years. I've seen a truck run on 4 year old diesel just fine. It was probably down on power, but it still ran fine. There's been others on here who've said that they've run theirs on older fuel than 5 years.
 
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