DT 360 swap - the planning stages

[rhkcommander]

Found another one for sale for $800

They are out there

http://salem.craigslist.org/pts/2626139076.html

Why do you tempt me?

Just kidding, I might reconsider my idi rebuild though

 

[typ4]

Cummins has a little handbook with all those dimensions, you need to get real close to a repower salesman at cummins. I tried for years to get that book and cant.

15.681 od on the ring gear.

 

[bike-maker]

I dug through that little handbook yesterday for about an hour. I found every dimension you would ever want to know on every flywheel (about 20 of 'em) that bolts to the back of a 6bt except for the 2 dimensions that I need.

 

[typ4]

I will call my crank grinder buddy and see it they have that dimension as a repair/ id process.

 

[bike-maker]

Thanks, Russ

 

[ocnorb]

OK guys I need help on this one.

Still trying to research what parts would be at least close to fitting together, so I'm looking for 3 pieces of information from guys that have parts lying around.

#1 Stock IDI flywheel diameter. Need this dimension to see if the starter would still fit on the opposite side of the block so I wouldn't have to cut a whole in a ZF5 bell housing to clear the starter.
#2 How big of a flywheel will fit inside the bell housing of a ZF5?

Thanks in advance if anyone could help me out

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[bike-maker]

So the SAE #2 sized flywheel is about the same diameter as the bolt pattern center line on the ZF5; that ain't gonna work.

I still would like to find the dimensions on a cummins flywheel.

 

[MidnightBlade]

As far as medium duty stuff goes, here's what I have figured out so far.
They are standardized into SAE sizes, with SAE #1 being the biggest.
My DT has an adapter bolted to the back of it that adapts it to a SAE #2 bellhousing (it was an Allison auto in the bus)
Industrial IH IDI's came in bigger trucks with SAE trannys bolted to them. The back of an IDI does not have an SAE bolt pattern in it; there is an adapter from the engine block to the SAE bellhousing, just like on the smaller pickup engines, but different bolt pattern.
So pick your trans out, find the appropriate SAE size bellhousing, and bolt it to the SAE adapter on the back of your engine block.
Clutches seem to be sized as SAE also.
2 things I still would like to find out; are the flywheels different between different engines?
Do the tranny's have a standard bolt patern where they bolt to the bellhousing?
A medium duty tranny will bolt up to a cummins because truck applications have created the adapter between the Cummins block and a SAE bellhousing.
This should be possible with a PSD also, although I haven't seen anyone complaining about destroying a bunch of transmissions behind the PSD's.
Makes me think a ZF5 might be way more capable than what it is rated at.

There's gotta be soeone else on here familiar with the whole SAE setup; I'm not 100% sure about all of my info.

I know for a fact that in the HD world there are only 2 different bellhousing patterns, SAE 1 and SAE 2. The DT466 uses the SAE 2 I believe along with a good number of Med. Duty trucks.

If you feel REALLY creative and have oodles of spare time and can fit an aircraft carrier under you truck I'd look into a Mack Tri-Plex. They are virtually indestructible, my cousin has been trying to kill his for the last 20 yrs (well over 1,000,000 miles) and it still shifts like new

I can find out the rear main seal Dia. on the Cummins 6BT tomorrow if I remember, I can also find the dia. and spacing on the flywheel/crank bolts.

 

[bike-maker]

I can find out the rear main seal Dia. on the Cummins 6BT tomorrow if I remember, I can also find the dia. and spacing on the flywheel/crank bolts.

That would be awesome, thanks.

 

[hesutton]

There are lots of options for bellhousing patterns. You could look for a SAE#3 and see if that would be a better fit for the ZF to DT adaptor.

CLICK HERE FOR SAE BELLHOUSINGS

Heath

 

[bike-maker]

As far as I can tell, the DT's only came with a SAE#2; but it's hard to tell because most guys are guessing at the size as opposed to actually measuring it. The bell housing adapter on the back is about 4" deep, and then you stack the bell housing and transmission behind that, which takes up a bunch of extra space.
I was just trying to find a cheaper way to go; if that means making my own adapter plate then so be it. But I would still be looking at a custom flywheel.
I'm starting to think that the only cheap (at least relatively) way to go would be to find a allison trans to bolt to it. There's a couple MT 643's close to me for under $500. The big drawback to the allison is no overdrive.
If 2.xx:1 gears could be had for our trucks, this would be the way to go.
I'm just trying to find the cheapest and simplest way to swap one of these engines in, so more people might be tempted to try it.

 

[MidnightBlade]

That would be awesome, thanks.

Rear main seal=5 1/8"

That's all I can remember, I'll remeasure it all tomorrow.
It's nice to have a 12V torn apart on the shop floor

 

[bike-maker]

Thanks,
Maybe on to something here. The seal on the DT360 appears to be the same 5.125", although there is step machined in the end of the crank flange for the flywheel to ride on. So the locating lip on the flywheel is right on 5". The 8 flywheel bolt holes have a center line of 4.125" (4-1/8"), and are NOT evenly spaced, so the flywheel goes on only 1 way, just like an IDI flywheel.
The other thing to figure out is I'm pretty sure there is a spacer between the DT's crank flange and flex plate, also like an IDI. I have the flex plate, but no spacer. I'm trying to find out if this spacer gets used in conjunction with a flywheel for a manual tansmission.
If the bolt holes in a Cummins flywheel don't line up, it's probably a lost cause. I could possibly get a blank Cummins flywheel, but by the time I had it machined to fit the DT, it would end up costing as much as the custom one that is made for bolting the DT up to a ZF5. I have access to a nice lathe, but not one big enough to swing a 15" flywheel on.
The best scenario would be to find someone local with a spare Cummins flywheel that I could just borrow and hold up to the ass end of my DT; I know a few guys that run Cummins stuff, but nobody has any spare flywheels laying around.

 

[MidnightBlade]

There is no step flange on the Cummins, and the bolt holes are all aligned perfectly

 

[bike-maker]

Well, so much for that idea......
Thanks for checking.