clutch chatter

[Cheaper Jeeper]

I decided several yr ago that when ZF5 designed reverse they geared it at least 2 times as fast as they should have......
.....I finally relented & took & installed a nearly new, used, free NAPA 12" SMF clutch kit from one of these good friends wrecked & parting out rig......
.....This thing has grabbed & ****** untracking empty in rev & 1st, as well as made noise & racket continually! All kinds of "rollover" noise.
The jerking drives me nuts!

Good to know that despite the grabby clutch and gear rollover noise yours has held up for "several years".

Even though it only does it when I lug it down, the gear noise still makes me nervous. It's always reassuring to hear that others have run one making these noises for extended periods - and its still OK....

 

[FordGuy100]

Good to know that despite the grabby clutch and gear rollover noise yours has held up for "several years".

Even though it only does it when I lug it down, the gear noise still makes me nervous. It's always reassuring to hear that others have run one making these noises for extended periods - and its still OK....

Can someone explain to me the sound gear roleover noise sounds like? Is it like a mix between a humming/a little bit of very faint gear grinding/chattering noise?

 

[Exekiel69]

Well today I talked to Paul and was pleased to have someone that actually care about what was going on. I didn't know until yesterday He is the owner of this place so it makes sense. He said if it was the clutch it should do it in any gear so how do I explain this now? I mean, I'm not the only one with this problem. He mentioned engine mounts, tranny mount (didn't do this one yet), U joints, carrier bearing and all this I have already done, He also said it could be oil or dust, now, it is necessary to remove the inspection plate when You swap to this smf so why makes them think there is no need to put it back so one wont get dust there?

Anyway, I'll have someone press the pedal and I blow some comp air and see.

 

[ttman4]

Good to know that despite the grabby clutch and gear rollover noise yours has held up for "several years".

Even though it only does it when I lug it down, the gear noise still makes me nervous. It's always reassuring to hear that others have run one making these noises for extended periods - and its still OK....

I don't know about being OK, I got a feeling if I could see inside my tranny, it'd probably scare me to death!
And I don't like this NAPA setup I put in last year! I bought a better TOB, but that thing still makes all kind of varying nasty changing noises!!
But tranny & rearend is in fact "Hi-Milers." I do have too much slack in my rearend pinion yoke....& I suspect this doesn't help either.
(sometimes if 'ya keep the radio blaring & blasting 'ya don't notice the noises)

Justin, gear rollover noise sounds like things are rattling round inside the tranny, bearings wore out & wanting to come apart. Usually at idle RPM's below 1000 RPM. And maybe mixture of grinds & ratteling sounds & noise untracking till RPM's are up.
Mine has always quietened down some if I raise RPM's at idle. And I usually idle mine up to say 1000RPM if I'm idling for any extended time...say over 15-20 min.
I've never liked to low idle a diesel for very long...seems to "load up" & stuff.
I guess this comes from my older "trucking days" with various diesels.
I've also heard gear rollover noise called "Twin Counter Shaft Noise" & other terms thru the years.

 

[riotwarrior]

Well I don't know about diesel clutches on these trucks, I do know I had a 72 1 ton ford NP435 and warmed over 390. It was dad's truck for years and he did put a nice big ceramic puck clutch in it as we ate other clutches on a regular basis. He would load the truck to the nutz and I tell ya that 390 had to work for him real hard.

Well back to the clutch. We did have problems for years, then we tried this ceramic puck thing. Well it took a lot of relearning to disengage the clutch smoothly but we did it.

At first it was chatter galore, over time it broke in and we learned how to feather that sucker real good.

Now that was what I was going to try to find for my Bronco but I am not certain thats something I am wanting at this time.

Perhaps it is time to go move over to a Zoom or Centerforce unit for my truck.

Hard to say at this point I'll cross that barrier when I get to it.

 

[Exekiel69]

Well, I inspected the smf today by pushing the clutch pedal and have a little look see and nothing out of the ordinary. The thing does not have the inspection plate (smf requires one to remove it ) so it is obvious it will have some dust but nothing too bad, it is a dually and I don't do dirt.

Anyone have any ideas? The thing still jumps in reverse with a trailer behind and I'm tired of that feeling something will come apart.

Thank You.

 

[reklund]

EZ-
Any chance you got the flywheel hot and warped it? Maybe the TO bearing is sticking on the stub of the trans and not sliding smoothly?

My Original DMF is starting to shake a little at idle, but is otherwise holding up fine... All this talk about trouble with the SMF setups is making me leery of changing over. Supposedly they were made to reduce problems associated with the DMF setups, but all I've heard is trouble...

Ryan

 

[Exekiel69]

EZ-
Any chance you got the flywheel hot and warped it? Maybe the TO bearing is sticking on the stub of the trans and not sliding smoothly?

My Original DMF is starting to shake a little at idle, but is otherwise holding up fine... All this talk about trouble with the SMF setups is making me leery of changing over. Supposedly they were made to reduce problems associated with the DMF setups, but all I've heard is trouble...

Ryan

Ryan, so far the only benefit I see from this swap is the dmf won't crack the bell-housing. Mine was just fine when I removed it, at the time I thought it was necessary to replace it for a smf it's been sitting since then with a 2k miles clutch in it.

I don't know how could I overheat it but if I ever did it was from the moment I installed it bc this thing has always done this when backing up . Now the TOB could be the problem too since as I mentioned You can NOT keep the inspection plate once You install the smf.

I'm clueless for now, I just want it to function properly and I know there is very few things that could be wrong on My truck.


Thank You.

 

[reklund]

I think it stinks that you can't keep the inspection cover installed, but that shouldn't be causing your problems. Maybe something is loose or not installed properly...or maybe the SMF you have is just no good. I'd be tempted to tear it apart and see what kind of runout you have on the flywheel with the trans off.

Does your problem only happen in reverse, or is it noticeable in all gears?

 

[93turbo_animal]

I don't know why you can't put the dust cover back on I did theres nothing with the clutch swap that would prevent it from working. The jumping is sometimes annoying but if I had to do it again I would definately go with the SMFW again just the clutch pedal fdeel is worth it to me

 

[Exekiel69]

Ryan, I had the smf installed professionally and then I removed it and reinstall it just bc I thought something was done wrong. There is no special location for the smf just put it on and use the right bolts and torque.

Aric, I tried to put the dust shield back but it would not fit so it could be something with mine alone wish it did fit but the guy at dialAclutch said not to put it back bc it would not fit anyway.

The almost violent shaking happens only in reverse and some times in 1st gear when pulling (12k-18k) lately.

I already removed it once I don't want to do it again and find nothing, I rated diagnose it as it is before tearing anything apart.

 

[reklund]

I wonder if the thrust clearance in the engine or tranny is shot, allowing fore/aft movement of either the crankshaft/flywheel assy or input shaft clutch disc assy? One would think the disc would slide on the splines of the input shaft if the trans was the culprit, but if the crank moves fore/aft that'll cause a grabby nasty clutch.

 

[Exekiel69]

How can the crankshaft allow movement, shouldn't that cause even bigger problems than this? I'm kinda lost on this one, anyway how can I check that?

The truck does vibrate more than I like when idling but it was timed and nothing changed even with new injectors so I discarded the fuel system as a cause.

 

[reklund]

Lay under the truck with the engine off, and have someone push the clutch in/out a few times. Look for movement at the harmonic balancer. I doubt you have a problem in the engine, but I've seen similar problems on Toyotas in the past...

I was just thinking (typing) out loud- didn't mean to alarm you or anything...

 

[93turbo_animal]

don't know why it won't fit EZ the flywheel cant be any bigger around then the stock or the starter wouldn't work either