Carter P4070 Electric fuel pump failures.

[BeastMaster]

Its gonna be decades before the crappy pumps are taken out of inventory, now that the word is out and their old customers have retrofitted to other pumps.

No telling how long those pumps will languish on retailers shelves.

Booyah, thanks for the link. I'll probably build my own PWM from discrete parts. There is a particular pressure transducer I want to use, and I want to build in some circuitry to shut the pump off if the engine isn't running. I am concerned that pump motor is not rated for continuous use, but get the strong idea that running the motor at reduced voltage will be OK. And I want to use it to experiment with dynamic timing adjustment, noting that fuel pressure affects timing. I'm well known to monkey around with things like this.

One thing I am trying to find out is a good way to monitor MPG in real time. I have speed info from the VSS sensor, but, given both fuel supply and hot fuel return, accurately measuring instantaneous fuel flow is more of a challenge.

 

[PROFG]

Two quick related FYI. Looking at a sub $50 PWM controller for 10A pumps, will update with test data. And, considering real time MPG, how long can return flow be sent back to LP without overheating (maybe blue ice pack cooler)? My old (gas) tester had 1/10 G globe with fill/run/test valve but for single pipe system. Only need 6 minutes per quart @ 24mpg/60MPH. Later




Edit for (gas), LP, MPH

 

[Kevin 007]

Over the past month, I have witnessed two more 4070 (modern Chinese built units) fail, both with under 400hrs on them. So I think im up to at least 10, 4070 failures in my world, of newer Chinese units, with under 500hrs on them. All installed correctly and none of which running alternative fuels.

 

[Cubey]

I'm guessing the P4070 being made 3 years later (now) are still bad? Debating buying one as an emergency spare, because someone already installed one on this van at some point, and so it would be very easy to swap it out for another just like it, when it eventually dies. Yeah, I need to try snugging up the clamps.

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Searching AutoZone for P4070, this lifetime warranty pump comes up and uses the Carter stock photo:

https://www.autozone.com/external-engine/fuel-pump/p/trugrade-fuel-pump-a1130ep/303035_0_0?searchText=P4070&redirectUrl=true

 

[Kevin 007]

I'm guessing the P4070 being made 3 years later (now) are still bad? Debating buying one as an emergency spare, because someone already installed one on this van at some point, and so it would be very easy to swap it out for another just like it, when it eventually dies. Yeah, I need to try snugging up the clamps.

You must be registered for see images attach

Searching AutoZone for P4070, this lifetime warranty pump comes up and uses the Carter stock photo:

https://www.autozone.com/external-engine/fuel-pump/p/trugrade-fuel-pump-a1130ep/303035_0_0?searchText=P4070&redirectUrl=true

Buying one as a spare is smart. If yours on your van is an "early" one, it may be good for a loooong time, as they used to be. They were a great pump. Really a shame they went to ****

 

[Cubey]

Buying one as a spare is smart. If yours on your van is an "early" one, it may be good for a loooong time, as they used to be. They were a great pump. Really a shame they went to ****

I spotted an old USA made "slightly used" one on ebay complete with the box for around $55 shipped, but I could get a new one on Amazon (or elsewhere online) for about the same price. A new old stock one is $115 on eBay.

O'Reilly is a bit cheaper than AutoZone for the pump, but the block off plate is more expensive. Comes out a wash, I guess. But O'Reilly is fussier about fuel pump warranty than AutoZone, at least based on the online warranty info.

I'm entertaining the idea of buying a lifetime warranty pump and immediately installing it, and keeping the existing pump as my emergency spare. That's what I do for my vacuum pump. Or just get lifetime pump and stash it. If I ever have to install it, go buy a second lifetime pump, so I can always have a new lifetime pump on hand. Two of them would be cheaper than say one Holley Blue, which only has a 90 day warranty. Constantly replacing fuel pumps would be no fun, though.

I was happy with Holley Red on the RV, but it immediately had timing problems with it and needed a regulator to help deal that. I don't want to deal with that again. Finding someone for idi timing is hard enough; try finding someone who wants to do it on a van chassis is even worse. The guy who timed the RV in late 2020 took all day despite being familiar with IDIs, because it was such a hassle. And I was helping as much as I could. He said it wouldn't be that cheap on a van chassis ever again.

So, if I stick to the pump type that it has now, it should save a lot of grief as far as that goes. As long as I get 3.5-4psi at idle, timing shouldn't get thrown off.

 

[franklin2]

I spotted an old USA made "slightly used" one on ebay complete with the box for around $55 shipped, but I could get a new one on Amazon (or elsewhere online) for about the same price. A new old stock one is $115 on eBay.

O'Reilly is a bit cheaper than AutoZone for the pump, but the block off plate is more expensive. Comes out a wash, I guess. But O'Reilly is fussier about fuel pump warranty than AutoZone, at least based on the online warranty info.

I'm entertaining the idea of buying a lifetime warranty pump and immediately installing it, and keeping the existing pump as my emergency spare. That's what I do for my vacuum pump. Or just get lifetime pump and stash it. If I ever have to install it, go buy a second lifetime pump, so I can always have a new lifetime pump on hand. Two of them would be cheaper than say one Holley Blue, which only has a 90 day warranty. Constantly replacing fuel pumps would be no fun, though.

I was happy with Holley Red on the RV, but it immediately had timing problems with it and needed a regulator to help deal that. I don't want to deal with that again. Finding someone for idi timing is hard enough; try finding someone who wants to do it on a van chassis is even worse. The guy who timed the RV in late 2020 took all day despite being familiar with IDIs, because it was such a hassle. And I was helping as much as I could. He said it wouldn't be that cheap on a van chassis ever again.

So, if I stick to the pump type that it has now, it should save a lot of grief as far as that goes. As long as I get 3.5-4psi at idle, timing shouldn't get thrown off.

Be careful and read the wording on your lifetime warranty. I have found going back to some stores, the warranty is lifetime "replacement", not lifetime "replacements". Some stores do keep track of your receipts, which is a good thing when you lose it and need a warranty, but a bad thing when they find out how many times you have gone back for warranty "replacement". Not all stores are the same though.

 

[Cubey]

Oh and I wish I took a screenshot last night. Somewhere I saw a page saying that Carter rotary vane pumps like P4070 cannot let fuel pass through. The best I can find now is this, from the Carter website.

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So, it could be that the mechanical pump is working, but it can't build pressure when the electric pump is off. But, probably not I guess.

Should I even mess with it? Don't fix what isn't broken, and such.

 

[Cubey]

Be careful and read the wording on your lifetime warranty. I have found going back to some stores, the warranty is lifetime "replacement", not lifetime "replacements". Some stores do keep track of your receipts, which is a good thing when you lose it and need a warranty, but a bad thing when they find out how many times you have gone back for warranty "replacement". Not all stores are the same though.

I wonder if O'Reilly is better for that vs AutoZone.

I'm on vacuum pump replacement #2 from O'Reilly. As in, this is pump #3, including the original I bought in 2017.

AutoZone just has a coverall warranty disclaimer.

O'Reilly goes into specifics:

4) Fuel Pump Warranty
Fuel pumps carry a Limited Lifetime Warranty when the fuel filter and strainer, if applicable, are replaced with the pump. In order to validate the warranty, O'Reilly Auto Parts and the pump manufacturer(s) require proof of purchase and installation of the filter and strainer, without this documentation our fuel pumps carry no warranty.

Wix 33270 is a good candidate for a strainer. 3/8 barbs, metal can, 140 micron.

 

[Cubey]

I suppose even just one warranty replaced would be better than nothing. Two pumps for $82-87 is cheaper than Amazon ($55). Plus I can claim warranty. Especially if I buy a strainer filter on the same order, so they can't claim I didn't have one.

Long term, a $230 Holley pump might make more sense? But I want something I can easily bolt on in a hurry if this one dies.

O'Reilly has 20% off on shipped orders of $125+ (Holley is excluded, but not Carter) and I can get shipments right now. They have everything I need to delete the mech pump and have a replacement pump ready, for $110 with tax.

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CART SUMMARY​

Item Subtotal $127.54
Total Discounts -$25.52
Applied Promo: "febtax"
Tax $7.91
Shipping FREE
TOTAL $109.93


Maybe I'll just hope this pump lasts until next fall.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Maybe I'll just hope this pump lasts until next fall.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just throw out something for thought. When I go electric, and I will someday, I'm going to install a fuel pressure gauge in the cab. I don't care about 100% accuracy, but I want to keep an eye on the fuel pressure. That way, if the pressure is getting lower, I can try changing the filters first. Then, if that doesn't help, I'll know that it's almost time for another pump. Sure these pumps can stop suddenly, but, hopefully, I'll have some advanced warning. Kind of like having a vacuum gauge for my vacuum pump.

 

[franklin2]

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just throw out something for thought. When I go electric, and I will someday, I'm going to install a fuel pressure gauge in the cab. I don't care about 100% accuracy, but I want to keep an eye on the fuel pressure. That way, if the pressure is getting lower, I can try changing the filters first. Then, if that doesn't help, I'll know that it's almost time for another pump. Sure these pumps can stop suddenly, but, hopefully, I'll have some advanced warning. Kind of like having a vacuum gauge for my vacuum pump.

That won't be cheap. Those electric fuel pressure gauges are expensive.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

That won't be cheap. Those electric fuel pressure gauges are expensive.

I already have it waiting to be installed. It wasn't too badly priced. Admittedly it is a Glow Shift. I'm only looking for consistent readings.

 

[Cubey]

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just throw out something for thought. When I go electric, and I will someday, I'm going to install a fuel pressure gauge in the cab. I don't care about 100% accuracy, but I want to keep an eye on the fuel pressure. That way, if the pressure is getting lower, I can try changing the filters first.

If Ford didn't stick the warning lights on vans down to the left where you can't see them (steering wheel blocks them), then the fuel filter warning light meant to warn about pressure might be useful. I suppose a buzzer/chime could be spliced in, or an extra light on the dash that can be seen. But yeah a gauge could work too. The F250 & RV lacked that feature. Must be a 7.3 thing.

 

[Cubey]

And why not use this $19 digital electric oil pressure gauge for fuel pressure? the sender shouldn't care if it's diesel instead of oil. Just a thought!

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