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Carrier/facet pump observations

Discussion in '6.9L IH & 7.3L IDI Diesels' started by laserjock, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. tbrumm

    tbrumm Full Access Member

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    I had a little free time today to mess around with installing the mechanical fuel pressure gauge. The Air Force had installed a rubber grommet on the left side of the cowl panel (I assume for another radio antenna) so I removed that grommet and ran the braided stainless hose for the fuel pressure gauge up through that hole. I then rigged up a rubber lined clamp and some zip tie to hold the gauge in place so I can see it from inside the cab. 010.JPG

    fuel pump on but engine off:
    005.JPG

    Engine started and fast idling:
    007.JPG

    Engine rev'ed to 3000rpm:
    009.JPG

    So, the truck does not seem like it is ever starving for fuel because, well, it isn't. Pulling grade and accelerating, the lowest the gauge will read is 3psi, and quickly recovers as soon as I lift my foot a little. The gauge needle is rock steady, unlike the electric gauge needle which flops around a lot. So, the pump appears to be putting out the pressure it is supposed to, and the problem has been the electric fuel pressure gauge. Maybe I will buy a 2-5/8" mechanical fuel pressure gauge, and a mounting cup, and install the mechanical gauge on the cowl permanently. I didn't think I would like the exterior gauge, but it is kind of growing on me.
     
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  2. Clb

    Clb Another old truck Supporting Member

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    Ok I call bullshit:sorry:
    Load that bitch down!
    I have 7k on the pin(for those looking) and it pusses out by 2500 r fekkin pm's read pre menstral syndrome:flipa...
    No way this shit works on a hauler, perhaps on flat ground(MAYYYYYYBEEEE)
    Buy a HOLLY.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  3. Garbage_Mechan

    Garbage_Mechan Garbage Mechanic

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    I won’t say it quite that way but I agree that while you have some basic data with a reliable gauge now, nothing is proven until you have the engine loaded down. Hauled some cows the other day and climbing one hill it would not pull it in 3rd. Before I downshifted it was at 0 to 1 psi. Didn’t trip the light though. (I know the filter light works)
     
  4. tbrumm

    tbrumm Full Access Member

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    Well, gentleman, it is what it is. I decided to try one of the 40290 pumps for my own information to see if it might perform a bit better than the 40222 pump that I already have in my truck. I thought I would share the results of what I found, in case others were curious about this pump. As part of that process, I found that I needed to also eliminate a faulty electric fuel pressure gauge as a possible problem, in order to determine some basic pressure numbers. I have now done that, and the pump seems to be providing good pressure on my truck. As they say, your results may vary. I don't have a heavy camper trailer or heavy cattle trailer to throw on the truck for more testing, so take the results for what you feel they are worth. If you think the results are BS as stated above, that is completely up to you. I won't lose any sleep over it, and I am not trying to sell anybody one of these pumps after all. I was merely trying this pump out for my own purposes, and thought I would pass the information on and let everyone else draw their own conclusions. If you feel more testing is in order, than by all means go and buy whatever pump you want and spend some time wringing it out the way that you feel would be best and post the results up here so we all can learn from it.
     
  5. Clb

    Clb Another old truck Supporting Member

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    Ok guess I should make an apology(sp?) As I was not calling anyone out with the b.s. remark
    BUT as someone hauling , and running a heat soaked rig, (6 hrs on the road) at 2-3k in elevation my rig will fire the light all day long.
    I hope it is a glitch, I should most likley shut up as I have no fuel pressure gauge to prove the issue....
    Ymmv
    Cb
     
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  6. Garbage_Mechan

    Garbage_Mechan Garbage Mechanic

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    Please don't be upset. I very much appreciate you doing this and posting the results. I know it took an outlay of $$$ and time plus diesel down to your armpit to get it done. AND it was exactly what I was contemplating doing. It shows promise and may well resolve the issue. I just can't say the issue is resolved without heavy towing.
    It appears to be improved. Again thanks for doing this and posting about it.
     
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  7. tbrumm

    tbrumm Full Access Member

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    I agree - those of you who are towing heavy and have modified IP's should be wary and further testing for your situations is probably in order. I was trying to convey the fact that I just don't tow heavy very often, like maybe once or twice a year when I rent some equipment like a skid steer or tractor, so I do not have the means to continue testing the pump in a timely manner. I wasn't trying to convince anyone to buy the 40290 pump and was only reporting my results thus far. The fact that even this pump will go from 8 or 9 psi down to 3 psi when putting the throttle pedal to the floor says that even this pump with the higher volume/pressure rating may be at its maximum ability to keep up with fuel demand - but it is working well in my truck. This pump does seem to build pressure faster after that initial "foot to floor" event too.
     
  8. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Thanks for posting your results man, I really think you could benefit from a bypass style regulator. That’s pretty high for inlet pressure, and when a pump is working at its max all the time, it looses some efficiency through thermal loss in the motor. With a bypass regulator, you are only moving as much fuel to maintain 5 psi for example, and the pump stays cooler so it’s more efficient when you put the throttle down and it needs to use all the displacement it can put out. You may see no pressure drop with the regulator even at wot, and you won’t have your timing being affected by a 7 psi pressure swing. I know 1 or 2 degrees of timing doesn’t sound like a ton, but I’ve seen over 20hp increases with just a degree change on the dyno. These engines are very sensitive to these timing changes.
     
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  9. YJMike92

    YJMike92 Full Access Member

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    I'm not trying to muddy the waters but to ask the question. Are the Facet pumps you all are using correct for the application? I'm looking at the Facet catalog wondering why one of the Dura-Lift pumps and not a pump made specifically for automotive use? It appears the 40290 is a pump designed for steady even demand not the fuel variations involved with a diesel truck or any vehicle for that matter.
    https://www.facet-purolator.com/wp-content/themes/twentysixteen/catalogpdf.pdf
     
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  10. tbrumm

    tbrumm Full Access Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions, Wes - any recommendations on which one? I was going to install a Holley regulator, but these do not appear to be rated for diesel.
     
  11. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Ive run this one for years in many truck without issue https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/181492361622

    It’s not specifically rated for diesel, but it’s rated for straight ethanol which is much harsher on seals than even biodiesel. It’s the best low pressure regulator I’ve ever used, you set your pressure and it’s rock solid at that point as long as the volume is there. And they’re rebuildable for very cheap, but never had a reason to rebuild any of mine.
     
  12. tbrumm

    tbrumm Full Access Member

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    Thanks, Wes. The next question is: being as this is a return style regulator and will need a return line to the tank, can I tee into the return line just behind the engine, or will that place too much of a burden on the 5/16" return line and back things up?

    Everybody-you see how this is snowballing? We all start out with a mechanical fuel lift pump on our IDI's that is simple and generally does the job asked of it. But we all want more and better, especially if we have a turbo and modified IP's, so we switch to an electric pump. This conversion, at least in the case of the 40222 Duralift, is pretty simple as a regulator and a return line is not involved. However, the 40222 Duralift is marginal in meeting the fuel requirements of an IDI, so in my case, I tried the 40290 Duralift. This pump makes better volume but also makes too much pressure. So now we need to add a regulator to the system (and a return line) to get the pressure down to 6psi. A non return regulator could be used, but then the pump is working hard at full pressure all the time against the non-return regulator. All of this is the very essence of trying to improve performance - it sometimes gets more complicated than we initially anticipate. Of course, any higher volume pump (Holley, Walbro, Mr. Gasket, whatever)is going to need a pressure regulator. I just bring these points up for consideration by those who are on the fence about converting from the mechanical lift pump to an electric.
     
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  13. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Just a short return line teed into the feed fitting of the lift pump will do, it will actually act as a booster for fuel flow
     
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  14. tbrumm

    tbrumm Full Access Member

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    Well that is simple enough! Thanks - never would have thought of doing it that way!
     
  15. Garbage_Mechan

    Garbage_Mechan Garbage Mechanic

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    The one problem I had when I had a return regulator set up was clearing air initially. I think it needed a bleed orfice to eliminate ait.
     

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