Anybody tried DIESEL HPR in their IDI?

[SDEconVan]

"Diesel High Performance Renewable" fuel (NOT biodiesel,) is available in our area but was wondering
if anyone tried it and how their IDI motors handled it.

What I know is the Diesel HPR is non-petroleum diesel, and it's being rendered (made) in Singapore
then sent by tankers to San Fransisco, there are quite a few places selling it there. Recently HPR is
being shipped down to San Diego, we have two places selling it. Maybe someone in the Bay Area with
an IDI has been using it. A local fire department in our county has started to use it for their fleet of
diesels.

Of course on their website, Propel Fuels claims higher cetane, more torque/power, cleaner combustion,
70% smaller carbon footprint, and eventually with more business a lower price than regular diesel.

(not affiliated)
http://www.dieselhpr.com/

If this stuff pans out I can tell my Prius driving neighbors that they need to update their petroleum-burners

(On a more serious note our Governor has pushed a Bill through State Senate that encourages the
elimination of vehicles older than 20 years old, period, and all "gross polluters" (read "diesels.") The bill just
needs to get through State Congress to be enacted, ARRRRGH.) SEMA is lobbying heavily against it. Hoping
that my IDI van would qualify as an "alternative fuels" vehicle by using Diesel HPR, and avoid this State run
version of "cash for clunkers" which is against every one of my five vehicles I own...

Best regards,
George

 

[79jasper]

Could be wrong, but I thought this was brought up a few months ago?

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[SDEconVan]

It could be 79japsper, I did a search and turned up nil. Also checked the overall forum, I might not be using
the correct search words(?) I brought it up now because the Carlsbad City Fire Department has recently
committed to it, being half million dollar vehicles, and emergency ones at that, I'd figure they knew something...
...then again...???

 

[DaytonaBill]

What about lubricity?

#2 diesel lubed the IP's well and then when the gov switched us over to today's fuel, we started having problems with our IP's springing leaks and wearing out faster because of lower lubricity... It was the abundant sulfur that lubed the IP's and the new fuel had way reduced levels of sulfur in it, so hence the question...

What about lubricity?

 

[79jasper]

Maybe it wasn't here. But in a search, seems people like it.
Higher cetane rating.
May eat old orings and fuel line's though.

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[DaytonaBill]

Nevermind, I found this...

Diesel HPR is additized to provide excellent lubricity in all driving conditions and exceeds ULSD lubricity specification.

What the hell does that mean? I have never heard of "additized" and I'd feel more comfortable if they said "Same level of lubricity as #2 diesel or Biodiesel"...

After all, they can honestly claim that, even if their product has only 10% more lubricity than ULSD, but that still would not be enough for our engines because our IP's were designed to use the abundant sulfur of #2 diesel to keep the IP lubricated...

Just saying...

 

[Clb]

Onehung....
Nevermind.
The station in ? Sac I hit would not take my card ( wanted a club card) made me jockey the 3 axle across the station to store brand pump.
Phawk em not ever again.
#2 works fine.

 

[SDEconVan]

"Additized" ha ha, government speak for they added some, or something, to it, not sure how much, not
sure what, but it got additized, "so what difference does it make at this point anyways..." AAARRRGH!!!

I got to do more research, can't tell if the testimonials on the websites are real or faked. Need to talk to
someone who has run a couple/few tanks through their IDI, maybe even towed heavy with it.

 

[79jasper]

Are you on FTE?
That's where I found most talking about it.

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[riotwarrior]

This freaky diesel stuff was discussed here a whioe ago...cannot find thread but remember it as I looked up *** it was...

Just sayin

 

[SDEconVan]

I brought up HPR because it was on the front page of our local newspaper, one of the cities in our county is using it for
their fleet of fire engines and rescue equipment. After a bit of reading and searching a Merecedes site and FTE were
helpful (thanks 79jasper.) I'll paste the best quote I could find about it (a letter from Bosch using it in their equipment,)
and a guy with an IDI, after a couple thousand miles:

"I've got an IDI but I have been using this stuff for around 2000 miles and it burns real clean no smoke EVER, engine is a bit quieter, but gas mileage is down by about 2 mpgs. I add some opti-lube for lubricity, and it is about 20-30 cents cheaper per gallon here which is why I'm using it. People on some RAM diesel forums have experienced similar results in all their different types of engines.
After this trial period I think I'm gonna use a blend of this and regular summer blend Diesel, as this Bosch letter suggests...

Below is What I got from Bosch. I am sure from the way they talked they have no testing of their own. All from on paper info. The HPR company did say on the phone it is good down to -40f with no gelling. It is not Bio diesel according to them, much more refined.
16.5 is not bad for "real" mileage on a lot of city driving. My driving was mostly flat hwy at about 55mph. I agree I seems it is very clean. Where do you buy yours?


Dear Mr. D,



I have spoken with our fuels experts here in the US and the Bosch position is as follows:



· The ‘Diesel HPR’ is a brand name Propel Fuels Inc. has coined for the NESTE Oil Hydroprocessed seed oil (mainly palm oil) product they call NExBTL. https://www.neste.com/na/en



· This is nearly a 100% paraffinic hydrocarbon material. it has some nice qualities (high Cetane Number, good stability characteristics, virtually no aromatics, et al) but also some significant deviations (lower density, potential cold flow waxing characteristics, et al) relative to conventional Diesel fuel which Bosch products are released for.



· The statement that the fuel meets the ASTM D975 petroleum diesel specification is not completely accurate. They meet most of the specification, but not all of the specification.



· When blended with conventional Diesel we see little concern (even perhaps at blends up to 30 or 50%) because paraffinic hydrocarbons are naturally part of refined petroleum Diesel fuel.



· Bosch does however have some concerns regarding lubricity and its responsiveness to common lubricity improver additives. Refer to notes in the NESTE website regarding lubricity.



Bottom-line: Paraffinic hydroprocessed seed oils (like ‘HPR’) hold promise as supplement to the Diesel pool as blends. Bosch does have concerns for use as a neat fuel (100% blend) and without sufficient validation testing, Bosch cannot guarantee there will not be any performance or reliability issues with our fuel injection systems.


Best Regards,

Ilidio Serra



Robert Bosch LLC
Manager, Technical Service Support (AA/SNA9.2)
2800 S. 25th Avenue - Broadview, IL 60155 USA
Bosch worldwide"

*******************So, here is a summary for reference*******************

-right now, it's California only (which I'm guessing the remainder of the lower-48 will HATE it.)
-higher cetane (75) compared to 60 for D#2, which can be as low as 40.
-very clean burn, odorless, clear liquid. Engine parts will be cleaner internally, less soot.
-costs about 10 cents less than D#2 (in the Bay Area, where it makes landfall from Singapore.)
-lower mileage by 1 to 2 mpg, offset by lower cost according to users.
-no gelling down to -40F, good starting.

This fuel might be my "way out" as the State and City continue to crack down on Gross Polluters.
Additives for better lubricity seem mandatory at this point, in spite of the ASTM D975 claim.

ASTM D975 is the petroleum diesel standard, part of which is the measurement of lubricity in ULSD
which is the fuel sold here as "Diesel #2" (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel.) ASTM D975 lubricity is at 520 microns, and HPR is 460. I read that most of Europe runs on 460. For an IDI, I am thinking that the ULSD number is probably our minimum, so additives are a good idea. Or, blending as was suggested in a few conversations, a combination of Summer Blend #2 with HPR will run cleaner and quieter while still providing adequate lubrication of injection pump mechanisms. Cost to run is lower, the engine is cleaner and (hopefully) the Man is off my back during spot checks.

Here is the Fuel Spec for HPR from the company brokering it, Propel:
http://dieselhpr.com/assets/media/DieselHPR_Fuel_Specification.pdf


Please add comments, and corrections, we have two stations selling it in town, that number will be increasing, and I will likely have to use it at some point...

Thanks for your help!

Best regards,
George

 

[towcat]

"Diesel High Performance Renewable" fuel (NOT biodiesel,) is available in our area but was wondering
if anyone tried it and how their IDI motors handled it.

What I know is the Diesel HPR is non-petroleum diesel, and it's being rendered (made) in Singapore
then sent by tankers to San Fransisco, there are quite a few places selling it there. Recently HPR is
being shipped down to San Diego, we have two places selling it. Maybe someone in the Bay Area with
an IDI has been using it. A local fire department in our county has started to use it for their fleet of
diesels.

Of course on their website, Propel Fuels claims higher cetane, more torque/power, cleaner combustion,
70% smaller carbon footprint, and eventually with more business a lower price than regular diesel.

(not affiliated)
http://www.dieselhpr.com/

If this stuff pans out I can tell my Prius driving neighbors that they need to update their petroleum-burners

(On a more serious note our Governor has pushed a Bill through State Senate that encourages the
elimination of vehicles older than 20 years old, period, and all "gross polluters" (read "diesels.") The bill just
needs to get through State Congress to be enacted, ARRRRGH.) SEMA is lobbying heavily against it. Hoping
that my IDI van would qualify as an "alternative fuels" vehicle by using Diesel HPR, and avoid this State run
version of "cash for clunkers" which is against every one of my five vehicles I own...

Best regards,
George

george-
do you have an AB number i can refer to?

 

[DaytonaBill]

· Bosch does however have some concerns regarding lubricity and its responsiveness to common lubricity improver additives. Refer to notes in the NESTE website regarding lubricity.

Well, I found what I was looking for...

On page 22 of the downloadable PDF at https://www.neste.com/sites/default/files/attachments/neste_renewable_diesel_handbook.pdf

I found this...

Neste Renewable Diesel

• requires a lubricity additive in the same way as sulfur free diesel fuels and GTL

• generally similar types of lubricity additives can be used in fossil diesel fuel and Neste
Renewable Diesel

If I ever see it over here in Florida, I'll give it a shot knowing that I still have to keep using lubricity additives...

That is important since Bosch (not sure about Stanadyne, but not taking any chances) refuses to honor it's product's Warranties with the use of this fuel...

 

[sonictech.net]

Is it really any less expensive? It looks to me like the reduced mpgs is offsetting the lower $/gallon.

 

[whiteboyslo]

AB1695