Another CDR thread (aka argument thread)

MontanaJack

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The CDR system seems to be a subject of constant debate around here. :popcorn

I have a question about it that I have not seen yet. Perhaps because it's a real bad idea.

The CDR seems to simply move oil and oil vapor to another spot. It just so happens to be the intake so you can at least burn the oil if enough is accumulated instead of losing it to the atmosphere.

My question is this: Why couldn't we just reroute the tube straight back to the lube system, even into the side of the oil fill tube or something? This, in theory, would negate the need for the CDR all together wouldn't it?
 

laserjock

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I think I can answer that. You would have a closed system that is no longer venting pressure. The point of the CDr is to vent crankcase pressure while not venting all of your oil out. Since it vents to the intake side, the "pressure" is vented into the intake which is not connected to the crankcase.
 

MontanaJack

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Gotcha. I thought that might be the case but I wasn't sure if they were linked by the same pressure. I assumed there was good reason nobody had done that yet, but it never hurts to ask
 

OLDBULL8

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CDR= Crankcase Depression Regulator.
On a gas engine it's known as an EGR, but it does the same function as the CDR.
Due to the relatively Hi compression (~20.5:1) of a Diesel engine as opposed to a Gas engine (~8:1), the condition of the piston rings and cylinder walls, wear/taper, has a greater effect of how much blowby (crankcase pressure) is generated.
Without a CDR or so called Road draft to relieve the CC pressure, you would soon be blowing the CC oil out the crank seals.
The CDR tube going into the intake, should be extended into it just enough to clear the bottom of the grommet.
The baffel on the under side of the intake manifold keeps the oil splashed up from reaching the CDR tube, if the CC oil is overfilled, the crank could possibly splash oil up into the baffel drain slots.
Those that have a Road draft and a catch can will find very little oil in the can over a 1000 miles of travel.
With a CDR that returns the Vapor to the intake, that there is so much oil in the vapor that it would keep the Diesel engine running, it's time for an overhaul.
The amount of oil in the blowby vapor is nil.
It's been said, if you place the oil fill cap upside down on the fill tube and it gets blown off, it's time for an overhaul.
There is only one way to test CC pressure is with a Manometer.
 

MontanaJack

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The reason this came up for me is that I've noticed a consistent amount of oil sitting in the intake port by my compressor wheel everytime I take off my air cleaner, which has been four time in the last two weeks. I'll clean it out, put the filter back on, and the next time I look... There's a more oil, just hangin out right there.

The truck also uses a bit of oil. More than I think should be expected, although I haven't figured out a quarts to miles ratio. I know this more often than not means piston rings or a worn out motor, but my engine only has 39k on it. The previous owner had it rebuilt by a local diesel shop with an excellent reputation.

I'll take off the CDR this week and test to see if the diaphragm is working or not.
 
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FoolhardyIDI

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CDR= Crankcase Depression Regulator.
On a gas engine it's known as an EGR, but it does the same function as the CDR.
Due to the relatively Hi compression (~20.5:1) of a Diesel engine as opposed to a Gas engine (~8:1), the condition of the piston rings and cylinder walls, wear/taper, has a greater effect of how much blowby (crankcase pressure) is generated.
Without a CDR or so called Road draft to relieve the CC pressure, you would soon be blowing the CC oil out the crank seals.
The CDR tube going into the intake, should be extended into it just enough to clear the bottom of the grommet.
The baffel on the under side of the intake manifold keeps the oil splashed up from reaching the CDR tube, if the CC oil is overfilled, the crank could possibly splash oil up into the baffel drain slots.
Those that have a Road draft and a catch can will find very little oil in the can over a 1000 miles of travel.
With a CDR that returns the Vapor to the intake, that there is so much oil in the vapor that it would keep the Diesel engine running, it's time for an overhaul.
The amount of oil in the blowby vapor is nil.
It's been said, if you place the oil fill cap upside down on the fill tube and it gets blown off, it's time for an overhaul.
There is only one way to test CC pressure is with a Manometer.

Close but your thinking of the PCV Valve. Positive Crankcase Vent Valve recirculates the blowby gasses and oil vapors in the crankcase back into the intake. EGR works by recirculating a portion of an engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders. EGR works by diluting the N2 and providing gases inert to combustion (CO2 primarily) to act as an absorbent of combustion heat to reduce peak in-cylinder temperatures
 

IDIoit

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cdr = Crankcase decompression regulator
allow me to add to Oldbull8's description.

i think many people dont understand that our engines are air pimps.(edited: pumps)
we control pressure in a cylinder with air and fuel to create a micro nuclear explosion (heavy on the micro & light on the nuclear)
we control this explosion with timing, and orifices to allow incomming and out going pressure.

while the first part most people understand, its the 2nd part that alludes us.
whats under the pistons is a sealed crank case with oil, and guess what else?
uncontrolled pressure from the pistons moving.

this is what the CDR does, it is designed to relief pressure, and capture oil.

this is why the factory plumbs it into the intake, to suck all those fumes and oil vapor into the engine again to "recycle" it.

the problem with road draft tubes, is that its not being pulled by anything but outside pressure.
and it smokes and flings oil all over, which some people dont give 2 ***** about and or, love it? :dunno

some people leave them in the intake.
the only thing this does is spits oil at the compressor wheel in your turbo, or down your intake. and is recycled.
excessive oil in the intake can cause symptoms of bad rings and bad valve guides.
because the pistons are igniting that mixture as well.


closing the system from your CDR to another spot that is affected by crank case pressure is not doing much, and will result in leaky seals.


another option is to run it through your exhaust.
this is the option i am running.
i have a piece of 1/2" pipe welded into the down pipe at a 50-ish degree angle.
i intended this to act like a venturi, and suck the crank case pressure out.
with a 1 way check valve threaded on to the pipe, and 3/4" hose to the CDR.

the problem of this set up that i have found, is that i installed the 1/2" pipe flush with the down pipe.
which acts like a venturi at higher RPM, but at lower RPM it introduces a pulse into the crank case, that works its way around the valve.
that is now causing me to leak oil out of my dipstick tube.

many say that excessive oil out of the CDR will leave nasty oily residue out of your tail pipe.
i have a new CDR and i get zero oil out of my tail pipe.
but then again, it leaks ever so slightly out of my dipstick..

i believe that the CDR design is a flaw to begin with.
its basically a tube in a tube, with some kind of filter to trap oil out of the vapor.

as a community, we need to design and test our own.
maybe we can delete the oil from the vapor then this will all be a mute point.
 

IDIoit

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not really a debate as it is a personal preference.
some of us are engineers by trade and have spent tens of thousands on education. and some of us just screw things up until we eventually get it right.
the bottom line is that these are diesels, and were all going to leak oil from somewhere, somehow lol
 

david85

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Engineers are also limited in what they are allowed to do. Its been said that a turbo option for the 6.9 was discussed from day one, but it could have doubled the diesel engine price option. The CDR system works well, but its not perfect. Having said that, its better than nothing. Our diesel ranger doesn't even have that, only a double wall baffle in the valve cover, then the vent hose gets routed straight to the intake line. The Chevy 6.5s (and 6.2s) use the same system and it seems to work fine on them too. My Dad's is just about to roll over 300 000 kilometers and so far there is no visible wear on the turbocharger blades.:dunno

The most beneficial aspect of the CDR system is reduced crank case pressure, which delays the onset of annoying oil pan leaks.

I prefer to keep running it because it also reduces emissions. I don't have much patience for tree huggers anymore, but I when I see smoke coming out of my tailpipe, it means something's wrong and needs to be fixed (like lifting my foot up LOL)
 

franklin2

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not really a debate as it is a personal preference.
some of us are engineers by trade and have spent tens of thousands on education. and some of us just screw things up until we eventually get it right.
the bottom line is that these are diesels, and were all going to leak oil from somewhere, somehow lol

One point that has been missed in this thread; The crankcase pressure does not only contain pressure and oil mist. It also contains by products of combustion. This is water, fuel, and exhaust gases. You don't want this in your engine, if you can get it out it makes the oil stay cleaner longer. That's also why you do not put it back into the crankcase, you want this dirty stuff out of there, it's waste. Burning it is the best option, spitting it out on the ground works but makes a mess and stinks.
 

HS108

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I think the best is the people who have made make shift in line catch cans for the CDR.

You are allowing it to do its job of letting pressure out and being sucked back into the intake, but the catch can will act as a filter for the oil and other debris.
 

MontanaJack

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I think the best is the people who have made make shift in line catch cans for the CDR.

You are allowing it to do its job of letting pressure out and being sucked back into the intake, but the catch can will act as a filter for the oil and other debris.

I was about to ask if anyone has done this. If you could divert it into a sealed container, I'd say a small mason jar, then you could chose what to do with it and be able to keep an eye on how much oil is being let out of the CDR.

Have people been doing this? Any Pictures or experiences, good or bad?
 
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