Announcing the SUPER MOOSE from Conestoga Diesel Injection

[kc0stp]

Mel,
Thanks for taking the time to develop this monster and show how it works. That was extremely informative. If my intuition is correct (I don't have much faith in it anymore) this pump should provide the fuel to see performance commiserate with current big 3 offering (in stock form) supposing you can cram enough air in there. Does that seem like a reasonable statement? I know the dyno will tell the tale, but do you have a WAG at what you think this pump will be capable of at the rollers with enough turbo? I too was wondering about the pressure on the return system. I'm guessing smoke might be an issue. Will this pump work with the Hypermax smoke puff limiter?

For me this is exciting becauseone of my biggest fears in building my truck was that I would put a lot of work into and not be happy with the performance. At least now I know there is another place to go without having to do an complete engine conversion.

(Ill preface by saying Im not a fan of Moose products generally speaking)

Based on what its putting out on the top end you might break 300 to the wheels at sea level, while I agree the 200ccs at 1400rpm is great you cant use it that low. By the time you have enough rpm to use the fuel its dropped off drastically. HP is all made on the top end and with these trucks figuring the standard 3200-3600 governor its pretty close to a 2-1 torque-hp ratio.

 

[icanfixall]

I see your a fan of RD2 and NMB2 products. While I don't agree with your ideas about the Moose pump in question I do respect your comment and the use of other products. Don't discount the effort Mel has put into what he has to offer. So far I have not seen anything he has to offer thats not worth what he claims it can do. BTW I'm on my second Bull Moose Pump and loving it. I have tried several other pumps and know the differences. I even ran a pensacola pump for years but it was not a paint rebuild. It actually was rebuilt but by whom I can't say for sure. It was bought thru them for $295.00 and no shipping or core charge. Other members were not a lucky as me doing the same thing with pensacola specials.

 

[Ugly Moosling]

(Ill preface by saying Im not a fan of Moose products generally speaking)

Based on what its putting out on the top end you might break 300 to the wheels at sea level, while I agree the 200ccs at 1400rpm is great you cant use it that low. By the time you have enough rpm to use the fuel its dropped off drastically. HP is all made on the top end and with these trucks figuring the standard 3200-3600 governor its pretty close to a 2-1 torque-hp ratio.

Here's specs from an RD4 pump, it's a slightly flatter curve, but not by much. The Super Moose has a marginally higher peak and the curves probably cross somewhere in the mid 2000 rpm's. I'm not trying to argue one pump or the other. It's two different pumps, if either work and last then that's good for whoever buys it. My question is, if he's calculating 452 hp and you're guessing 300hp from the Super Moose, what makes the difference in your mind?

Also got my pump back today...

CC @ WOT Engine RPM

191 @ 1000
180 @ 2000 (~Torque peak)
161 @ 2800 (~HP Peak)
148 @ 3300

If everything correlates to previous dyno runs, that means there is enough fuel for 452whp/954wtq. [\QUOTE]

 

[92F350CC]

(Ill preface by saying Im not a fan of Moose products generally speaking)

Have they let you down? Can't really pan a product unless you have experience with it.

 

[Agnem]

I'm not sure what "not a fan of Moose Products" means. To the best of my knowledge, I don't have any disgruntled customers out there, so I can only guess he is not my customer. That's fine though. I suspect it has more to do with the fact that I build stuff and then set it loose, rather than building a truck, and dyno proving my goodies and then saying I've got something to sell. I was in I.T. for 31 years. Microsoft did this my whole career, and Bill Gates is a billionaire. So, yes I agree it's not ideal, but I partner with my customers and answer the phone when people call me, so if it's OK with them, it's OK with me. People are free to pick and choose what they want to do. I'm just here to help in whatever capacity I can. Its a shame, because every time I make an announcement, there is always somebody (or group of people) who want to pooh pooh it. That's fine. I don't make it my business to study what others are doing and mimic them. I just do my own thing and hope I don't step on any toes. Joel and I work very hard to work into the daily routine some kind of activity for IDI people. We probably build and sell more IDI products than anybody. I've got a sound professional business that I'm proud of, and do my best work that I can. I think that's really all anyone can expect.

 

[icanfixall]

Mel thats a perfect answer. Actually the truth needs no defence and a champion doesn't push anyone around. He doesn't have to. I just do not understand a statement saying I don't like something and I have never tried it. Your tireless work is deeply appreciated around the world. Selling internationally makes you world renowned in my book...

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

ok im at a loss.i can't figure it out.so why would you want to dump in so much fuel off idle like that and then have less fuel than you started with in the upper rpms? what am i not understanding here guys?
actually,i guess i should ask,not only why you would want to dump in gobs of fuel off idle,but how could you even hope to burn it all? what turbo can spool up that fast?

 

[tanman_2006]

Hx will spool that quick I bet. It built for a 5.9l engine and once you put it on a 7.3/6.9l engine then just the air flow will spool it let alone the heat.

source unknown

 

[92F350CC]

ok im at a loss.i can't figure it out.so why would you want to dump in so much fuel off idle like that and then have less fuel than you started with in the upper rpms? what am i not understanding here guys?
actually,i guess i should ask,not only why you would want to dump in gobs of fuel off idle,but how could you even hope to burn it all? what turbo can spool up that fast?

Nature of the DB pump. I don't remember the exact mechanics of it, but I believe Mel explained it a long time back. Basically the higher the rpms, the lower the volume that can be pushed through the ports. I believe it's a solid obstacle with zero workaround. The only solution is an entirely different fuel system, not rotary.

 

[racer30]

The Pumps ability to fill through the small ports has been one of the problems with getting more fuel out of the DB2 pump... Hey Mel how did you get around the advance piston/timing advance/governor problems caused by increased inlet fuel pressure and subsequent higher pump case pressure. I suspect you had to disable and or remove the advance and governor systems in this High output pump...

 

[88 Ford]

Nature of the DB pump. I don't remember the exact mechanics of it, but I believe Mel explained it a long time back. Basically the higher the rpms, the lower the volume that can be pushed through the ports. I believe it's a solid obstacle with zero workaround. The only solution is an entirely different fuel system, not rotary.

The VE pumped Cummins has the same issues as well. You are 100% correct. Its just the nature of this style pump...

 

[icanfixall]

The interesting thing about a diesel is fuel makes it rev up. Its normally getting an unlimited amount of air flow. Adding fuel causes the engine to build hp and rem. Its not like a gas engine that requires a measured amount of fuel and air ratio. A diesel sucks in air. then injects diesel to make it run. nothing is combined with the air sucked in. We can add propane to the air or other products but that after market stuff. Not everyday running of any diesel engine

 

[Agnem]

The Pumps ability to fill through the small ports has been one of the problems with getting more fuel out of the DB2 pump... Hey Mel how did you get around the advance piston/timing advance/governor problems caused by increased inlet fuel pressure and subsequent higher pump case pressure. I suspect you had to disable and or remove the advance and governor systems in this High output pump...

No, nothing is disabled. There is still a very nice workable advance and governor. The thing that will be required, is that instead of timing the pump to the normal 8.5 degrees, we suspect 6 degrees may be the better starting point.

 

[NO_SPRK]

ALL HAIL SUPER MOOSE

 

[Agnem]

Now now... no need for that.