advancing injector pump timming too far??

[benwill1]

I purchased a used 94 f250 4x4 with a factory turbo idi. It was sluggish and smoked with unburned fuel. The guy had replaced 4 of the injectors with the wrong, non-turbo injectors (wow). After installing 8 reman g code injectors, it ran better, but still seemed sluggish. I checked the marks on the injector pump/housing, it was off. I rotated the pump to line the marks up, (top to the passanger side) advancing the timming. WOW!!!!! it's like driving a differant truck! even starts better. I moved it a little more. ever more power!! I know I need to take it to a shop and have them time it right, but, will having it advanced too far have any negative effects??? I sure don't want to put a hole in a piston, but it will flat out fly now.

 

[dansvan]

Get guages. Listen for the marbles in a can sound. If you hear it, back off.

 

[Diesel JD]

Good call Dan. The fact is, too far advanced will break stuff, eat glowplugs, maybe even crack pistons if you go too far for too long. Having said that...how far is too far? That will be a bone of contention, and I will not get into that debate, except to say that the book specs are 8.5*BTDC +-2-3*. In reality, you were probably running too far retarded before. You want to listen for a distinct diesel clatter, but not real loud and harsh like a Cummins. It should have a good big truck sound, no knocking or bad noises. It should not smoke at idle. It should black smoke just a bit under hard accleration or climbing a hill, not any other time. If you don't have excessive smoke or abnormally harsh operating noise you're probably ok. Either way, you should get a boost gauge and pyrometer and you should get the timing set to 1.5*ATDC with the luminosity method or 8.5*BTDC with the pulse method. That usually is the happy medium. Good luck with your rig. The factory turbo trucks are pretty popular.

 

[RLDSL]

Another thing you'll likely notice if you advance too far is the engine will run hot ( been there

For not much more than it will probably cost you to take it to a shop to get timed, you can buy a pulse adapter here and an advance type timing light and do it yourself, and you'll have the tool next time you need it.

----------Robert

 

[benwill1]

Thanks, guys for the help.Going to get the snap-on adapter. I don't think I'm hurting anything at this point. I found a friend who has a non-turbo. his makes more noise than mine.

 

[kcw12]

i was at 14.5 for about 30 thosand miles.

 

[ttman4]

Couple questions....

Which way is best way to time? whichever works best for you & whichever instruments/tools you got?

Approx how much should one cost & where can I get a pulse thingie that goes on #1? Not talking about the instrument, I'm talking about the actual pulse insert, or what ever it's called, that fits between inj & inj line.

I remember what mine looked like, & I remember when I lost it.....5-6-7 yr ago when had 100 arms in fire, so I had local shop change injectors for me....looked it over 1-2 days later & it ain't there!!! Went back & asked mechanic....he didn't know nothin-bout-nothin, even though I pointed out he had to bend #1 inj line to make it fit.....

Actually, since I've changed IPs several times etc screwing round, I'm currently using lines that apparently have #1line that came w/out the pulse thingie. maybe my #1line is off a van...they had pulse thing on #4 didn't they?

Other question....if timing with luminosity method what is used? regular timing lite or something special kind of timing lite? & how you hook it up....

 

[icanfixall]

When that jerk bent the line to fit without the fitting what he did was advance that cylinder because he shortened the line that amount. All the lines need to be the same length... Period. Some guys are way less than shadetree mechanics.... I hope you don't do business with that guy again... Watch Ebay. The lines come up in sets all the time. Some times you can buy the pump with the lines thrown in.....

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I had a truck I bought with the timing way over advanced. I literally thought the motor had a bad bearing by the noise it made over 50 mph. Once I backed it off some it was fine.

I didn't notice when I got the truck because there was no exhaust past the Y-pipe so you couldn't hear the motor over the exhaust.

 

[funnyman06]

Hey so when you guys say adjust the IP, does the whole thing actully rotate? If so how do i rotate mine, im blowing a lot of white/grey smoke and mine is lined up dead on.

 

[benwill1]

The whole thing will rotate. Mine sprung back due to twisting the lines a little. There are three bolts that require a thin 9/16 or 14mm (I trimmed one down with the side grinder). I had to wipe off where the pump meets the housing to see the marks. After loosning( do not remove) the three bolts, the pump has a square block that a 3/4 or 19mm wrench will fit. Use it to rotate the pump. Facing the windshield at the front bumper, top to the passenger side to advance. Very little movment makes ALOT of differance. the book says .030" at the mark is = to 2 degrees crank timming. Made a HUGE differance!!!!

 

[funnyman06]

is there suppose to be a hard line in the way of the square?

 

[benwill1]

No line in the way...the square is on the front, opposite of the lines. I'm not sure if all pumps have this. I know my "turbo" pump is a slightly different part number. Ford calls for a "special" tool to turn the pump. I would say do what ever you can to turn and hold the pump while you tighten one of the three lock bolts.

 

[funnyman06]

IP

Yeah, i didnt think there was suppose to be a line there, it looks like my pump was rebuilt before i got the truck, and they ran what looks to be the fuel return line back down over the square where u turn it, Umm i seem to have one problem, when i undo all the nuts and such the pump is still very hard to turn, to the point where it doesnt turn. Also if my truck is smoking white/greyish which way should i be turning my pump? Im still very new to all this, so if somone knows of a god disel tech in san diego that knows IDI's that would be great.

 

[benwill1]

If you have gone much past the marks, you may have other problems. I'm new to this also. The pump was hard to turn, due to the steel lines connected to the pump. The top of the pump goes to the passanger side to advance it. With white smoke, I'm not sure if this will help. I'm in NC..too far to know a good mechanic near you. Does the smoke smell like fuel or does it smell sweet???