7.3 IDI Turbo Hard Start and White Smoke

[robw]

I recently purchased an 89 aftermarket turbo truck to replace our 6.9 bullnose; placed in it my good starter from the 6.9 (it would fire immediately), 1000cca batteries, 2/0 cold weld crimp'd cables, R&D 90cc pump and stage 1 injectors.

It cranks hard and fast, but requires 20+ seconds to fire and billows white smoke.

Per, "icanfixall" in below thread, I'm today going to pull the timing gear and verify timing by moving to tdc and setting the timing gear. I suspect the issue could be due to a previous owner placing the timing 180* out.

https://www.oilburners.net/threads/1989-7-3-idi-white-smoke-issue-stumped.63912/page-2

My R&D pump and injectors have around 10k miles on them, I'm doubting they are causing any issue.

The truck also has a lot of oil pooling inside the turbo (ATS kit) air filter flange, possibly blowby?

the immediate previous owner attempted to get it back on the road by resealing the cooling system and replacing the water pump, it could have had an old cooler in there that didn't hold pressure and popped the headgasket, maybe worse. When I purchased the truck it had the original IP and injectors, all wretchedly out of spec.

I suspect the truck has been driven into the dirt and there could be massive amounts of carbon built up in the piston walls preventing the rings from making a good seal, I also want to seafoam the fuel filter and run it for a couple minutes, then let it sit overnight and see what happens.

Am I on the right track here, guys? Anything else I should immediately do? I won't have access to a proper compression tester until at least the weekend to verify if the head gasket/otherwise is good.

Cheers and tia,
Robert

 

[snicklas]

Are your glow plugs working? Long cranking with smoke is usually glow plugs.

Did you remove the housing, gear and pump. Or did you remove the pump from the gear and housing. If you only removed the pump, I’d be less concerned about timing.

You could try plugging in the block heater for a couple hours, if it starts easier, then back to plugs.

Or, leave the ignition in the run for a minimum of 3 minutes, real minutes, not that’s been long enough. Use a brief shot of ether. If it fires up, then plugs. The reason of leaving the ignition on for that time, if the plugs are working, they will be off and cold in that amount of time. Or if you want to disable them, we can tell you how, but this way works without having to disconnect anything.

 

[robw]

Cheers!

The glow plugs are new, but the ignition is fairly shot so I bypassed it all with an on/off switch for the IP, and momentaries to the starter and gp relay. Should I run a lead off the battery to one side of the relay to bypass it, instead of to either small wire? I am ignorant here.

My 6.9 had 12v plugs, and I am not opposed to throw my newish beru 12v plugs into this block with a regular automotive starting relay to make my own glow plug frankensystem.

I do not think the gp's are working, but all I did was throw 2 wires to the small (8mm nut) onto the relay and plug them into a momentary.

I personally pulled the inspection cover and backed off the 9/16 nuts, with the housing on, BUT the silicone snot looks fairly recent on the housing, so it's possible a, "technician" attempted to service the pump by pulling the housing, then set the timing to bottom dead center rather than top.

I left the block warming overnight, and today around 10 AM it would not fire after 20 seconds of cranking, no glow plug action (my 6.9 almost never needed the plugs to fire if it was plugged in).

 

[robw]

To clarify, the white smoke is at all times, not just when cold. The idle always, "droops" down when I let the off throttle, before recovering as well.

And, to see what's going on with my glow plug wiring, I'm going outside to play with a multimeter and see if what I wired is doing anything remotely what I desired.

Thanks for your time.

 

[robw]

As an update, I looked up the wiring and saw that I was connecting a ground to the switching side, lol, so I hooked up a temporary switch from the 12v drivers side terminal and hooked that up to the switching side, the relay immediately turned on upon actuating and then started clicking after 5 seconds.

This isn't normal behavior, is it? Is the glow plug relay bad?

Anyway, that still doesn't solve the constant white smoke and slight idle surge, I'm hoping it's simply timed 180* backwards.

 

[robw]

^ The glow plugs appear to be heating to their set range and shutting off. All appears good, immediate previous owner installed all Beru glowplugs... yussss!

The truck is completely 180* out of time, and my suspicion was correct!

Here the truck is at TDC on #1 (first passenger piston next to the fuel filter, found by pulling the glow plug and slowly cranking with the starter relay waiting for the glow plug hole to "push" air at me).

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[Thewespaul]

You will hardly be able to do 20 mph if it’s 180* out. White smoke sounds like retarded timing to me. If you get rapid clicking with the relay is clicking, your harness or glow plugs are suspect. For the surging, it could be a sticking metering valve, but it’s unlikely if you recently replaced the pump. Put a fuel pressure gauge in and see if you have any fuel pressure at idle, this can cause the rpm droop you are describing

 

[Thewespaul]

Look at your timing mark on the damper and make sure it lines up with the line on the timing case, you may not be at tdc yet. The lines will align at 1 and 4 tdc, so make sure you are on the compression stroke of #1 by pulling the glowplugs. You don’t want to have to pull the timing cover if you don’t have to.

 

[robw]

Definitely at TDC, #1 glowplug removed bumped the starter until the compression pushed at me, then popped the harmonic balancer mark to the 0.

Definitely out 180*, already pulled the injection pump housing, counted the teeth, scribed a line at tooth 53 and set a square to make sure it set down perfectly.

As an aside, with a speed square on TDC, the closest on the left hole next to the timing mark will be square down the middle of a line.

It ran like crap with the original pump and crapped out halfway through the drive, swapped in my 90cc pump and it ran a fair bit better, albeit cranking forever and billowing smoke.

Should've done the thermostat housing prior, now I need to change the oil because all this coolant ran into the pan, hah.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

so make sure you are on the compression stroke of #1 by pulling the glowplugs

He did. I'd say that you're right going off of your description and picture. From what I can remember, they won't run worth a crap and will be very noisy while running. The smoke will be terrible and will stink like a lot of unburned fuel. I, personally, haven't seen this on a 6.9/7.3, but I have on a 6.2/6.5 Chevy. The end result would be very similar.

 

[robw]

^ Exactly the issue.

Pretty sure I'm on the right track, thanks to the plethora of information on this forum.

The previous-previous owner was a diesel know it all and could fix anything, which is why he sold a barely running turbo diesel 7.3 IDI for 1k, same price I bought it for (and coincidentally he bought it for from a dealership I've found paperwork for).

Cheers guys, I'm going to button it back up and follow up when I'm done.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

It will feel like you at least tripled your power!

 

[robw]

As an update, ticking away - the gear is back on, with the housing torqued down, IP mounted and accessories back on.

Tried to install a Mishimoto 3 core aluminum radiator, link below, and it didn't fit - the brackets were fabricated improperly and sat about half an inch below where they should, the pins on the core support were below the mounts on the rad.

Lame.

Anyway, poor weather and open air conditions = I'm only moving so fast.

Thanks all for your assistance!

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mio-mmrad-f2d-83/overview/make/ford

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[robw]

It's running beautifully! Cranks RIGHT up, starter sticks - the flywheel looks domed on the edge of the teeth, it will probably need a new one and starter. The ZF5 is also missing an inspection cover, dammit.

The fuel injection lines are also bent to the ********* and back, can't get the clamps on.

Oh well.

IT LIVES! No more white smoke!

 

[Jason1377]

It's running beautifully! Cranks RIGHT up, starter sticks - the flywheel looks domed on the edge of the teeth, it will probably need a new one and starter. The ZF5 is also missing an inspection cover, dammit.

The fuel injection lines are also bent to the ********* and back, can't get the clamps on.

Oh well.

IT LIVES! No more white smoke!

Nice update n description it's a runner with issues another idi Frankenstein