240d questions

[Cheaper Jeeper]

If you go with a NA motor car and do a turbo swap your engine will not last it would be better to find a na car and do a turbo engine swap from a donor car .

OK, I get that part. A good turbo motor isn't something you can find just anywhere - but blown motor with a turbo on it is easy to find.

Do you have any info about whether the squirters can be added to the non-turbo motors? From what I understand, that is the difference and what would keep a non-turbo from holding p if you put a turbo on it. Unless you know some other reason why a non-turbo can't have a turbo added and still hold up....

 

[tgatch]

They have different Cam timing also. The N/A motors have some overlap where the Turbo's do not.

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

OK, well I guess I'll need to find a whole engine then <sigh>

Nothing is ever easy, is it?

Bob

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

So, do these old Benz - particularly the NA models - respond as well to the same "tricks" as other old IDI's? Will, reducing the intake restrictions and opening up the exhaust get you noticeable gains in performance? Can the pumps be turned up like the ones on the old IDI Fords? What about a little propane?

Anybody know the gear ratios for the 4speed auto in the 300 series and for the 4 speed manual in the 200 series?

I'm asking all these questions because I'm going to look at a 79 300cd non-turbo today or tomorrow, and wondering if I was to do a 4 speed swap, and modify the intake and exhaust systems, would it be worth it? Will the performance be fairly good?

The CD is being offered for $2200, and the best price I've seen for a CD turbo within 500 miles of here is $4000-$5000. I'm wondering is the turbo really worth paying two to three times more for the car, or can an NA be made to perform well enough to be a decent alternative?

 

[towcat]

So, do these old Benz - particularly the NA models - respond as well to the same "tricks" as other old IDI's? Will, reducing the intake restrictions and opening up the exhaust get you noticeable gains in performance? Can the pumps be turned up like the ones on the old IDI Fords? What about a little propane?

Anybody know the gear ratios for the 4speed auto in the 300 series and for the 4 speed manual in the 200 series?

I'm asking all these questions because I'm going to look at a 79 300cd non-turbo today or tomorrow, and wondering if I was to do a 4 speed swap, and modify the intake and exhaust systems, would it be worth it? Will the performance be fairly good?

The CD is being offered for $2200, and the best price I've seen for a CD turbo within 500 miles of here is $4000-$5000. I'm wondering is the turbo really worth paying two to three times more for the car, or can an NA be made to perform well enough to be a decent alternative?

imho....
there's no such thing as a "quick and easy" mod to get more hp on a diesel benz. they krauts have already done their engineering and testing. unless you want your car to sound like a milk truck, there's nothing else to gain from straight pipping a benz. you could put a cone airfilter on the turbo but once again, there's no significant improvement other than more noise. bottom line is without a turbo on the older benz, you now own a snail. with the extra hamster in the 300 non-turbo, you actually have a chance to make it through a busy intersection with oncoming traffic and live to tell about it. with a turbo, you now own a diesel with acceptable low speed performance. Mind you, the new design benz diesels are a different animal but they also have their own new set of nightmares.
good luck.
oh yea, to answer you earlier question, I've owned and still own various MBZ products and have worked with one of the valley's best benz mechanics. They are a good family car but I don't have any desire to mod a benz. firstly, the resale value is killed and secondly, a benz is nothing more than comfortable transportation and I won't ask more of it. My go straight to jail ***** car is a 1984 gray market M6. BMW's are a completely different animal compared to a MBZ.

 

[tgatch]

The MB Exhaust is pretty free flowing if it is one with out a cat. If it has a cat, remove it; that is about the only thing you can do that will gain you much of anything.

You can adjust the fuel delivery with the pump, adjust the timing and add a little more boost.

An 81 thru 85 300D was good for about 90 to 95HP at the wheels in stock tune. I've been told that just over 100HP is about all you will get with out buying a Myna Pump from Finland (about $2500 to $3,000). I've seen a 300D here in the states with a Myna Pump that has put down about 145HP, and he needed a lot more turbo as the smoke never cleared up.

Here is the guy's dyno sheet:

You must be registered for see images attach

and a video of his run here

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

Tgatch, is that 90-95 at the wheels for the turbo? Any info on the non-turbo? If that is the wheel HP rating, what they are rated at the flywheel? I'd assume the typical 25%-35% parasitic loss rule of thumb applies - so somewhere in the neighborhood of 120-140 HP FWHP for the turbo?

Compared to a F250 non turbo IDI at 175-185 FWHP pushing 7k lbs, the Benz with 65%-75% as much HP and just over 50% of the weight sounds like it should do OK - if the gearing is right.

So I'm still wondering about the gear ratios of the auto and manual trannies. Anybody got any info or a link to some?

 

[tgatch]

90 to 95 HP is at the wheels for a turbo in proper tune with an auto trans in good condition. They were rated at 125HP and 177lbs-ft at the crank... I think the california models were less and the 85 model year was the same as the California cars across the nation.

I have seen a 240D with a manual trans that had a Turbo 617 swapped in put 100HP to the ground. That engine was stock timing, no adjustment on the pump, valves adjusted properly, turbo giving the factory 10psi, and freshly rebuilt injectors that were using later tips and injector springs.

The N/A ones were rated at 88 crank HP. 240Ds were around 70 crank HP

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

90 to 95 HP is at the wheels for a turbo in proper tune with an auto trans in good condition. They were rated at 125HP and 177lbs-ft at the crank... I think the california models were less and the 85 model year was the same as the California cars across the nation.

I have seen a 240D with a manual trans that had a Turbo 617 swapped in put 100HP to the ground. That engine was stock timing, no adjustment on the pump, valves adjusted properly, turbo giving the factory 10psi, and freshly rebuilt injectors that were using later tips and injector springs.

The N/A ones were rated at 88 crank HP. 240Ds were around 70 crank HP

7000 lbs /185 hp = 38 lbs per pony for the NA F250

3500 lbs / 125 HP = 28 lbs per pony for the turbo 300D/CD

3500 lbs / 88 HP = 40 lbs per pony for the NA 300D/CD

So the NA 300D/CD should be pretty close to the NA F250 in terms of acceleration.

That at least gives me a good idea of what to expect.... thanks.

 

[tgatch]

0 to 60 times from what I can find

300D Turbo 15.0
300D N/A 19.2


My car as it sits right now is just a shade north of 16

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

WOW, what a difference that 18 ponies makes between the 240d and the NA 300d. I was reading the other day that the factory 0-100 kph (62 mph) numbers for the 240d's are 32 seconds for the auto and 31 seconds for the stick. Amazing that the 300d with only 18 more flywheel HP can shave 13 seconds off the time. You sure that 88 for the NA 300d and 70 for the 240d are the flywheel HP numbers and not the HP ratings at the wheels, tgatch?

Anyway, I got to test drive the 79 300cd today. Felt pretty good. Decent acceleration - better than I expected actually. I think I could drive one every day. Sure missed that "kick" of the turbo at 1500-2000 RPMs though.

I decided to pass on it. Not because of its performance, but because of its problems. It has been repainted from silver to maroon, and it was not done well. They went to a lot of trouble to paint all the door jambs and such, but didn't do much (if any) prep work in terms of sanding the original paint so that the new paint job would stick, and is peeling in a couple of places. Plus they obviously used cheap paint so it is oxidized, faded, and wearing thin in places.

On top of all that it had no headliner on the sunroof panel, the tranny is shifting very "soft" instead of firmly, and reverse barely works at all. Pretty sure the tranny is on its last legs. Although I want to swap in a 4 speed, I don't want to do it right out of the gate, because if I'm going to buy one to replace my Jetta, I need it to be a reliable daily driver initially - until I'm actually ready to do the swap. So, I'm still hunting.

Got a new question though. How hard is it to swap the steering wheel in one of these beasties? Once I buy mine that HUGE truck-like steering wheel will have to go. No way I want to drive around with that thing in my lap all the time....

 

[BENZIN]

have you treid craiglist?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/car?query=mercedes+benz&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max&addTwo=

http://kpr.craigslist.org/search/car?query=mercedes+benz&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max&addTwo=


I seen a couple a deisels in those adds