Disappiontment In The Mountains

icanfixall

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Here is a 6.9 head.
Edit: Picture is big, to view entire pic right click on picture then select view image.

This is a great pic showing the triangular passages on the 6.9 heads. On the 7.3 this passages are round and have a plug in them on the block too. In this pic the areas I'm referring to are at the top of the pic but. This is the lower edge of the actual head. Here is the 6.9 and 7.3 head gasket. Note that the complete passage is not open in the 6.9 head to match the port in the head. The 7.3 head gasket is on top of the 6.9 gasket too.. No reason to remove the plug in the 7.3 block and heads but drill it out to match the 6.9 gasket will work fine.
 

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Clb

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So do I read corectly that this is a fix for the 7.3 running hot!?
Is there a thread specific to the problem?
Searching now but....
 

icanfixall

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So do I read corectly that this is a fix for the 7.3 running hot!?
Is there a thread specific to the problem?
Searching now but....

Really can't answer that question. Way too mant variables like. Plugged up radiator. Or a new 3 row dimple core with 12 fins per inch. Just too many other things to say this is the real fix for the 7.3 running hot. Hell some have found not spring in the lower radiator hose and it was collapsing when the engine revs up. but sitting still idling it looks fine. Now thats a tuff problem yo actually see happening. A hose sucking flat.
 

Clb

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The 88 was not a fan of high altitude hot weather towing, I 've not been able to take the new (93) up high/hot to see yet.
If the rest is working corectly then I could be game to crack the heads on the 38k mile eng. to do this mod.. If it pulls hot!
Down here at sea level its 120-125 +- errr:dunno make that 220*
Thanx cb
Hope the op gets to dial in the power to driver comfort deal soon.
 
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david85

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Strange. If they decided to restrict (but not completely block) passages near the front of the engine to get more flow at the rear of the engine block, I could understand that. But it looks like it looks like this would restrict flow at one head near the front of the engine, and then the other head at the rear of the engine (since the heads are ambidextrous). It could mean more flow to the areas between the cylinders instead of at the far corners of the engine, but still, it doesn't seem to have worked as intended.

I almost wonder if they were trying to get the prechambers hotter for better emissions (now I'm just grasping at straws!LOL).
 

icanfixall

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I suspect exactly that. Get the precups hotter for better burn. On the 7.3 engines both the front and back of the heads and block have these plugged off coolant passages. The coolant flow is from the back of the engine to the top front of the engine. Coolant flows from the back of the oil cooler to the front of the cooler. Oil flows thru the cooler from the front to the back at the filter.
 

TahoeTom

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Both of the 6.9s I have owned eventually leaked coolant at the rear lower corner on the passenger side. External leak only, original head gasket. I thought maybe plugging those passages was their way of "fixing" the problem.
 

icanfixall

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Both of the 6.9s I have owned eventually leaked coolant at the rear lower corner on the passenger side. External leak only, original head gasket. I thought maybe plugging those passages was their way of "fixing" the problem.

Original 6.9 head gaskets did leak in the lower corners but I do not recall them ever plugging them up. There have been plenty of gasket improvements so now we don't have leaks. Unless you did something wrong when you installed the new design head gaskets. I recall Hsutton had a leaker and finally found out his block was damaged in that area. Had the blocked deck milled and problem solved. I don't recall the 7.3 ever had gasket issues in this are. I also wonder what these idi engines use for head gaskets when they run the engine in the big dump trucks. I do know the water pump is different in the S1600 and the dump truck applications. The did not have the left hand spin on threaded end. They have the 4 bolt flange that many other cars use for the fan clutches.
 

dieseldoug

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Wow, five full pages of information. Thanks.

After reading all you've writer, I'm sure I was a big part of the problem. As I said I was treating my pit bull like a lap dog. But, it was my first trip through the mountains, and I sure didn't want to break half way through a pass.

I called the guys at Banks to try to find out why they don't supply an intercooler for my 91 7.3, and they had no real answer. I was surprised when the engineer I was talking with told me I didn't need one. He said if I wasn't getting 12 to 15 PSI I needed to adjust the waste gate to provide more boost. He went on to say the higher boost alone would take care of high EGT.

It was his belief that if I stayed in the throttle with the waste gate open I'd cause excessive heat. Guess that makes sense, but makes me wonder about adding the waste gate in the first place. Seems like they decided it's better to burn up pistons than blow a head gasket.

Anyway, I plan to continue to live by my EGT gauge. I still think an intercooler is a good idea, and am doing the research on what will provide least flow restriction to my radiator, most cooling while allowing good flow to my turbo. Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Again, thanks for all the help.
 

cpdenton

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I called banks one time about some other stuff, and asked them the same question. Why don't you guys have an intercooler kit for your sidewinder. He told me,"no real need for an intercooler when you only have 5 pounds of boost."

I responded with, "well, I rgularly see 10 to 11 pounds of boost."

He replied, "WOW, you must really have turns up your pump a lot. That is too much fuel for an idi. You are getting a lot of black smoke, huh?"

I knew at this point in the conversation it was futile to continue down this road with the power stroke/cummins/duramax guy. They are probably done in th research department for our 25 year old power plant. Glad there are others out there pushing the envelope for us.
 

Clb

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As to the banks tech guys, they have at least one old hand who knows the old sidewinders non gated units, the one I talked to said 13 was purty high and 15 would cost me, but to live by the pyro!
The governor should save ya killing the engine!
 

DragRag

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Don't need the governor to save you at all. I had a spring put in on of my pumps and I could spin it too 4500. I tried to blow it up, and never could. I ended up swapping the engine out because at like 450k miles it just leaked too much oil.
 

PwrSmoke

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Typically, an intercooler will lower boost if no other changes are made but "boost" in and of itself is not the goal, airflow and a power increase is. Sometimes, you can make MORE power with less boost just from the cooler, denser air charge. Boost is just a number! A part of a calculation! If the final answer is power and performance, you have to put many more things in the equation to get the RIGHT answer.

The primary reason why the IDIs are always limited in boost is the indirect injection and the high CR. Remember the difference between static and dynamic compression ratios. You take 21.5:1, add 10 P (or more), fire it off and you get some seriously high combustion pressures (hence the need for better gaskets and head studs for a turbo conversion). The IDIs, the NA IDIs, NEED that high CR for cold starts and low end torque characteristics. The burn rate of the fuel is slower on an IDI because combustion starts in a remote chamber and that's why the cetane rating of the fuel is a bit more important for an IDI vs a DI. IDI's generally don't breathe as well as DI and their combustion chambers are smaller (at least the parts that do the work) and fuel mixing is less efficient than DI (one reason propane isn't as effective and can be more harmful in IDI that it is in DI: IMO nitrous, an oxidizer, is a better choice for a IDI). If you look at the end of the IDI era (not just the Ford/Navistar engines) you will see only a few turbocharged engines and, invariably, they are low boost (relatively speaking... low vs DI). There were and are good engineering reasons for that and they have to do with the natural limitations of the IDI design. That doesn't mean you can't improve on an IDI engine but the limits are lower and the cost vs gain ratio is lower.

DI engines have taken over the diesel industry for a lot of (good) reasons and the performance side of that is huge as well. In these very few places devoted to old technology, you see people trying to translate DI performance tips to IDI engines. Some does but a lot doesn't. This fixation on "boost" is one of those that really doesn't fully apply... especially on an engine whose basic structure and design was designed to be NA, or low boost, and was built for low power density with a decent safety factor. Of course IH could have built an IDI engine to make more power and tolerate higher boost but they didn't. Unless we have lots of money to spend on custom improvements to the basic structure and design, we are left working around what's there. We all have differences in goals and a higher or lower tolerance for risk or a shorter engine life. Thjose are personal chjoice one hopefully makes after being fully informed. For myself, I've had this truck 28 years and it's remained more or less in one piece because I worked within it's limitations. My opinion is the various aftermarket turbo kits and the performance that went with them used up about 2/3s of the safety factor but left enough for a long working life with an owner that took some care in using the right foot.

BTW, I much prefer a non-wastegated turbo in the IDI application because of the lower backpressure and EGT. You don't get that "snap" at the low end but then I use my truck as a hauler, not a dragster.
 

david85

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I suspect exactly that. Get the precups hotter for better burn. On the 7.3 engines both the front and back of the heads and block have these plugged off coolant passages. The coolant flow is from the back of the engine to the top front of the engine. Coolant flows from the back of the oil cooler to the front of the cooler. Oil flows thru the cooler from the front to the back at the filter.

Well I guess it all fits then. But still, they were taking a hell of a risk to have the head running hotter then the block. You'd end up with permanently different expansion rates and (according to accounts so far) a wider variation in temperature even after the thermostat starts regulating (again, worse in the heads). Its no wonder cracked heads are more common on the 7.3s. Although having said that, the 7.3 doesn't have a reputation for being a guzzler, so it may have partially worked. Makes me wonder why they didn't just run a hotter thermostat. At least that way, they could better control the experiment and reverse it if need be.
 

chris142

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My n/a truck runs much better on a cool morning vs a hot afternoon. I'm sure that an after cooler would really wake up a turbo.
 

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