Injection pump question

[Laine D]

So I have a Napa Reman injection pump on my 6.9. I’m unsure what pump it actually is because the serial number plate fell off. Anyways, I know that these pumps have a curve. A lot of fuel on the low end and it lessens as the Rpm’s get higher. I have the pump maxed out and if I floor it at about 1300 there will be quite a lot of smoke until it lights the turbo off at about 1800. It will pull hard all the way until about 3000 and it feels like it starts to fall off almost. Fuel pressure is fine, boost is rock solid at 8 psi. Could that be the fuel curve that I am feeling? I’m just curious as to what I am feeling or if it’s just my brain playing tricks. Thank you

 

[Dane Rickford]

So I have a Napa Reman injection pump on my 6.9. I’m unsure what pump it actually is because the serial number plate fell off. Anyways, I know that these pumps have a curve. A lot of fuel on the low end and it lessens as the Rpm’s get higher. I have the pump maxed out and if I floor it at about 1300 there will be quite a lot of smoke until it lights the turbo off at about 1800. It will pull hard all the way until about 3000 and it feels like it starts to fall off almost. Fuel pressure is fine, boost is rock solid at 8 psi. Could that be the fuel curve that I am feeling? I’m just curious as to what I am feeling or if it’s just my brain playing tricks. Thank you

My DCP reman does the same, only it falls off at around 3200-3300. From what I’ve researched it appears to be the fuel governor spring. From what I’ve read, the governor usually limits at 3500-3700. But for the pumps used in the old U-Haul trucks the pumps were limited generally to 3000-3200, so if what I’ve read is right, it could just be that you have a rebuilt pump from an old U-haul. There is a way to trim down the spring so it allows more rpms. Hey read of one guy that limited his at 4500, and while that is a bit excessive it makes the point

 

[Laine D]

My DCP reman does the same, only it falls off at around 3200-3300. From what I’ve researched it appears to be the fuel governor spring. From what I’ve read, the governor usually limits at 3500-3700. But for the pumps used in the old U-Haul trucks the pumps were limited generally to 3000-3200, so if what I’ve read is right, it could just be that you have a rebuilt pump from an old U-haul. There is a way to trim down the spring so it allows more rpms. Hey read of one guy that limited his at 4500, and while that is a bit excessive it makes the point

Yeah I knew about the uhaul pumps. The weird part is it will rev to 3500 but it seems to just fall off pretty early. I’m honestly pretty sure this pump isn’t ideal, I don’t think Napa is the right place to get injection pumps lol

 

[gandalf]

Okay, I'll give you my reading on this. Understand that this is my own feelings, and may not be entirely accurate.

Your Buttometer may be both one of the most accurate and one of the most deceptive ways of judging performance. A great deal of the difference depends on how objective you are. If you WANT it to run better your brain will perceive it as running better. That's the subjective reaction. You've got to learn to discount that, and be totally objective. Also, don't rely on Ford stock gauges. They are nothing more than moving idiot lights.

You've got to realize also about the torque curve on these engines. Peak torque is toward the low end of the curve. Once you pass the peak of the torque curve your gain in power becomes less and less.

Another aspect is that reman IP from Napa. Not all remanned IPs are equal. They run the gamut from very bad (simply washed/cleaned, repainted, and sold) to very good. Read The Hall of Shame section in the tech articles at the beginning of this part of the forum. We have, and highly recommend, three IP rebuilders here on Oilburners: Typ4, Agnem (Conestoga Diesel), and Classic Diesel Design in Texas (I can't for the life of me remember the member's name).

More members will come in, I'm sure. Read carefully.

 

[Laine D]

Okay, I'll give you my reading on this. Understand that this is my own feelings, and may not be entirely accurate.

Your Buttometer may be both one of the most accurate and one of the most deceptive ways of judging performance. A great deal of the difference depends on how objective you are. If you WANT it to run better your brain will perceive it as running better. That's the subjective reaction. You've got to learn to discount that, and be totally objective. Also, don't rely on Ford stock gauges. They are nothing more than moving idiot lights.

You've got to realize also about the torque curve on these engines. Peak torque is toward the low end of the curve. Once you pass the peak of the torque curve your gain in power becomes less and less.

Another aspect is that reman IP from Napa. Not all remanned IPs are equal. They run the gamut from very bad (simply washed/cleaned, repainted, and sold) to very good. Read The Hall of Shame section in the tech articles at the beginning of this part of the forum. We have, and highly recommend, three IP rebuilders here on Oilburners: Typ4, Agnem (Conestoga Diesel), and Classic Diesel Design in Texas (I can't for the life of me remember the member's name).

More members will come in, I'm sure. Read carefully.

Yeah if I could go back 2 years I’d definitely get a pump from Russ or something. Did that before I knew anything. And you’re right about the buttometer, I have found that when it comes to things being wrong I can feel it quite easily.

 

[gandalf]

Having praised our forum rebuilders, I'll have to admit that I'm running a U-Haul IP. It was a simple matter of economics when I needed a new pump. It runs well for me, though their reputation is hit and miss. I don't run it hard. I doubt I've ever hit 3000 rpm with it. I cruise at 65mph, 2100rpm. I don't push it, I'm in no hurry. It's only real load test was a run from San Jose to Canada, Vancouver Island, to pick up household goods. Going north I had a load, mainly banker's boxes, stacked 3 high, which I dropped in the Bellingham WA area. Coming back I had a load, stuffed to the roof, and the bed full too, of my MIL's household goods. The truck performed well.

The U-Haul pump was a replacement for an relatively new IP from Russ. I killed that pump using B99. I allowed the B99 to sit way too long in the tanks and IP, not realizing the consequences. Biodiesel is a biologic, by definition. It can break down, turn rotten and lose it's lubricity. That's what happened to me. The diesel lubricates the IP, but mine didn't because it had rotted. I burned out the pump, broke something critical inside.


EDIT: I forgot to add a picture of truck and trailer, just for general interest and because I'm on house arrest and pretty bored. The trailer is 6x10.

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[Thewespaul]

Most cheap rebuilders reuse a lot of parts, including the governor springs. These springs loose tension over time which is why y’all have such a low rpm for fuel cut, stock these pumps are designed to carry fuel out to 3800 rpms. Yes these pumps have a fuel curve, but that is not something that is built into the pump and can’t be changed because of the platform, I see a pretty flat curve on my pumps using the right parts, often only 10cc of drop from hp peak to 4000+ rpms. To get some more rpms, swap out your governor spring with a 6.2 db2 gov spring or shim it with a hardened washer.

 

[Laine D]

Having praised our forum rebuilders, I'll have to admit that I'm running a U-Haul IP. It was a simple matter of economics when I needed a new pump. It runs well for me, though their reputation is hit and miss. I don't run it hard. I doubt I've ever hit 3000 rpm with it. I cruise at 65mph, 2100rpm. I don't push it, I'm in no hurry. It's only real load test was a run from San Jose to Canada, Vancouver Island, to pick up household goods. Going north I had a load, mainly banker's boxes, stacked 3 high, which I dropped in the Bellingham WA area. Coming back I had a load, stuffed to the roof, and the bed full too, of my MIL's household goods. The truck performed well.

The U-Haul pump was a replacement for an relatively new IP from Russ. I killed that pump using B99. I allowed the B99 to sit way too long in the tanks and IP, not realizing the consequences. Biodiesel is a biologic, by definition. It can break down, turn rotten and lose it's lubricity. That's what happened to me. The diesel lubricates the IP, but mine didn't because it had rotted. I burned out the pump, broke something critical inside.


MODS: I somehow double posted above. Feel free to delete one of those doubles. Thanks.


EDIT: I forgot to add a picture of truck and trailer, just for general interest and because I'm on house arrest and pretty bored. The trailer is 6x10.

You must be registered for see images attach

When I first got my license I drove it like any 16 year old. Now that I have a bunch of money into it and have matured a little I drive it like my grandpa

 

[Laine D]

Most cheap rebuilders reuse a lot of parts, including the governor springs. These springs loose tension over time which is why y’all have such a low rpm for fuel cut, stock these pumps are designed to carry fuel out to 3800 rpms. Yes these pumps have a fuel curve, but that is not something that is built into the pump and can’t be changed because of the platform, I see a pretty flat curve on my pumps using the right parts, often only 10cc of drop from hp peak to 4000+ rpms. To get some more rpms, swap out your governor spring with a 6.2 db2 gov spring or shim it with a hardened washer.

I believe this pump has always been a bit funky

 

[IDIBRONCO]

When I first got my license I drove it like any 16 year old. Now that I have a bunch of money into it and have matured a little I drive it like my grandpa

I'm pretty much that way too. I' don't let any grass grow underneath my tires, but I also don't have to be the first one to the next stop light. When I shift, I use the clutch, but I only suggest that the transmission goes into the next gear (I don't try to force it). I don't usually get in a big hurry to floor the throttle after I let the clutch back out. I figure that it makes the parts all last longer. Besides, if I think that I'm in a big hurry, well I still have a sport bike waiting right outside the door on my house.

 

[Macrobb]

You've got to realize also about the torque curve on these engines. Peak torque is toward the low end of the curve. Once you pass the peak of the torque curve your gain in power becomes less and less.

Based on my dyno runs over the last few years... Yes and no. Instead of being air-limited in a NA-style(where you have high torque down low, and it drops due to lack of air), you end up air limited at the low end and fuel limited at the high end. So the torque curve hits the N/A torque peak(~1600 RPM)... and goes straight up to about 2800 RPM, where it flattens out and drops as the IP can't push enough fuel anymore.

Pretty much all of my various setups had a torque peak around 2600-2800 RPM, with a HP peak at 3000-3200 before it drops off, and that included my RD2-110 pump that'd rev to 4K.

If I changed the limiter screws on the pump, I'm sure that'd change the curves as well... but I don't generally do that.

When I first got my license I drove it like any 16 year old. Now that I have a bunch of money into it and have matured a little I drive it like my grandpa

<_< I still drive my truck pretty hard - get it out on the highway and run it up to about 3K before each shift. Then cruise in high gear(which for me is double-overdrive with my gearvendor)
Of course, if I'm hauling a trailer... I'm pushing it even harder, and I've run at 2600 RPM before going down the highway to get enough torque.

That being said... she's still doing fine, after a couple years of this. Despite being a JY engine that "had issues" so I got it cheap.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

get it out on the highway and run it up to about 3K before each shift.

I don't consider that as being ******* it. There's nothing wrong with high RPMs.

 

[Laine D]

I'm pretty much that way too. I' don't let any grass grow underneath my tires, but I also don't have to be the first one to the next stop light. When I shift, I use the clutch, but I only suggest that the transmission goes into the next gear (I don't try to force it). I don't usually get in a big hurry to floor the throttle after I let the clutch back out. I figure that it makes the parts all last longer. Besides, if I think that I'm in a big hurry, well I still have a sport bike waiting right outside the door on my house.

I feel like with a good running tr

I don't consider that as being ******* it. There's nothing wrong with high RPMs.

yeah I just think about all the guys with 5.13’s and c6’s. 3000 isn’t ******* these at all. Mine sounds extremely smooth the higher it goes

 

[Laine D]

Most cheap rebuilders reuse a lot of parts, including the governor springs. These springs loose tension over time which is why y’all have such a low rpm for fuel cut, stock these pumps are designed to carry fuel out to 3800 rpms. Yes these pumps have a fuel curve, but that is not something that is built into the pump and can’t be changed because of the platform, I see a pretty flat curve on my pumps using the right parts, often only 10cc of drop from hp peak to 4000+ rpms. To get some more rpms, swap out your governor spring with a 6.2 db2 gov spring or shim it with a hardened washer.

Hey Wes I know this is off topic but I just got my sender and it looks like the delivery dude threw the box at my door. Does the float arm look right? Not sure if it was bent like that from being tossed around

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You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Thewespaul]

No it looks like united postal smashers adjusted that for you. I’ll get you some measurements so you can get it straightened back out and know it’s accurate