Well, no more IP questions from me, I hope, found a later manual for download which included good explanation of torque screw adjustment. Thanks all for bearing with me thru these. Also, only got 1/2 cup in 30 secs from filter inlet so will install check valves, when I find my tubing cutter.
Building a better db2
- Thread starter Thewespaul
- Start date
Running the big bore stroker pump today, hoping to see some good numbers. Stay tuned...
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Josh Oldenburg
Full Access Member
Is that the 110 you were going to run before my pump?
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Nope this is the one before the 110, we ran it before and found it needed the timing locked with the fuel it’s making so we’re finally getting a chance to make a Hail Mary with it. I’ve run four pumps already today, gonna try and get yours out asap.
Well I’ve seen 160cc out of it so far, transfer pressure is being funky and acting like where looking some volume in either the head or the advance plunger. I pulled the advance piston out, flipped it and rotated it clockwise to see if it’s the advance piston passages affecting our transfer pressures. Letting the stand cool down while I build another 110 I just got an order for, I’m using all 5hp this stand has to get it to spin the pump at what will be 4000 rpms on the truck, this pump is loading the stand down more than the db4, so I know it’s putting out some serious fuel. It’s just a matter of getting all that fuel out the injection lines.
Well I’ve seen 160cc out of it so far, transfer pressure is being funky and acting like where looking some volume in either the head or the advance plunger. I pulled the advance piston out, flipped it and rotated it clockwise to see if it’s the advance piston passages affecting our transfer pressures. Letting the stand cool down while I build another 110 I just got an order for, I’m using all 5hp this stand has to get it to spin the pump at what will be 4000 rpms on the truck, this pump is loading the stand down more than the db4, so I know it’s putting out some serious fuel. It’s just a matter of getting all that fuel out the injection lines.
Well it’s not every day you leave the stand disappointed by “only” 160cc, but man I was really hoping for more. I spent 9 hours on the stand throwing every trick I could at it trying to get more but after trading some parts around it came down to the core head and rotor just not able to support the fueling I was wanting. Hot cranking fuel was only about 110cc, which is what I see on most my 90cc pumps with a smaller plunger and normal leaf spring. On the bright side, it carries out fuel really well, it was making 110 at 4000 rpms, which is 20cc more than my biggest 31 plunger db2, and just 20 less than the big db4, so it’s going to be a high revving beast for sure. I’ll put a fuel graph together with what it makes once we set the idle and talk to the customer to make sure it suits his goals.
Funny enough I pulled up the spec sheet for the fuel calibration for this marine GM 6.2 head and rotor, and it specifies for 75cc at 1400 engine rpms for the 250hp 6.2, with more than double that fuel in a ford idi this thing should make some big power. I’ve got a part number for this head and rotor from stanadyne so I could actually source a nos head and rotor and try that down the road to see what this pump could make in ideal conditions.
Funny enough I pulled up the spec sheet for the fuel calibration for this marine GM 6.2 head and rotor, and it specifies for 75cc at 1400 engine rpms for the 250hp 6.2, with more than double that fuel in a ford idi this thing should make some big power. I’ve got a part number for this head and rotor from stanadyne so I could actually source a nos head and rotor and try that down the road to see what this pump could make in ideal conditions.
IDIBRONCO
IDIBRONCO
I guess I wouldn't have won your Facebook contest. I was going to guess 165cc.
You would have been close, the winner guessed 164cc
Just finished up the idle calibration, lost a bit at lower rpms but was able to get some more hot cranking fuel just by setting the pump for no housing pressure all the time. This pump is pretty overbuilt for just the 140cc it peaks at, with the input thrust bearing setup and locked timing, but it will take all the abuse you can throw at it and should perform really well. The fuel curve is pretty impressive, not the biggest numbers but a very flat curve, its more like a db4 curve than a db2, learned some interesting things with this pump, I think the governor setup we put together has a lot to do with how flat the fuel curve turned out, and I went ahead and ordered the rest of the parts to build more like it, unfortunately theres only enough to build four more pumps like this, and I bought every one in the country. Im hoping I can find a company that can take these governor springs and minimax and replicate them for me, so I could put together a db2 upgrade kit for people to put a new governor, metering valve, delivery valve and set the pump up to monitor transfer pressure with just using their stock pump or modifying a junkyard pump, and be able to build a 300+hp capable pump themselves for only a couple hundred bucks, thats the plan anyways, still got to figure out a way to reproduce these parts to keep the costs down.
Heres the marine pump:
And for comparison my 150 db2 and the db4:
Heres the marine pump:
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And for comparison my 150 db2 and the db4:
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You must be registered for see images attach
IDIBRONCO
IDIBRONCO
I saw that. It's what made me not put up my guess.
Over on Facebook I announced that the stage one injectors are getting an upgrade-
"First look at the new stage one injectors, featuring brand new German manufactured bodies, nozzles and pintles based on the G code nozzles our original stage one injectors used. These new injectors feature a larger charging port cavity to fit a much larger spring with extra coils to extend the lifetime of the injector before it starts to drop pop pressure, while still retaining the oem Stanadyne shim size. The nozzle tip is beveled for easier installation into the cylinder head, and the end cap is anodized to prevent any rusting from water seeping down the injector threads, a common issue with the oem design. The cost of these injectors are slightly higher at $500 shipped, but require no core, and will maintain a more consistent spray pattern, pop pressure and performance than any rebuilt injector that reuses original components. Available at ClassicDieselDesigns.com soon!"
Using the same German manufacturer, Ive been working on putting together a design for a new head and rotor for our pumps, basing them off the existing assemblies but reproducing them with some upgrades to handle the heavy loads of a high displacement pump with our modern dry diesel fuel. Next week I will get to test the first of these head and rotors in a ford db2 housing, the upgrades it has over stock are:
-.370" plungers over the stock .310"
-1/2" cam ring pin
-Single discharge rotor assembly vs the dual outlet on the factory assembly
-.050" extra stroke from the custom cam ring
-3/16" over bored delivery valve passage
With this using all new components, it solves a lot of problems with core quality and with the continued quality drop with stanadyne as their parts are being all built in china now, so the pumps are going to be a lot easier to setup and calibrate consistently, and I will be able to get much more fuel out of a fresh pump than trying to modify one half way through its lifespan, which makes for a longer lasting product for the customer as well. Working with the manufacturer I will have the ability to have these head and rotors built with .310 to .450" plungers, so once everything is dialed in and I work up to the larger plunger sizes, in theory should be able to make much more fuel than has
"First look at the new stage one injectors, featuring brand new German manufactured bodies, nozzles and pintles based on the G code nozzles our original stage one injectors used. These new injectors feature a larger charging port cavity to fit a much larger spring with extra coils to extend the lifetime of the injector before it starts to drop pop pressure, while still retaining the oem Stanadyne shim size. The nozzle tip is beveled for easier installation into the cylinder head, and the end cap is anodized to prevent any rusting from water seeping down the injector threads, a common issue with the oem design. The cost of these injectors are slightly higher at $500 shipped, but require no core, and will maintain a more consistent spray pattern, pop pressure and performance than any rebuilt injector that reuses original components. Available at ClassicDieselDesigns.com soon!"
You must be registered for see images attach
Using the same German manufacturer, Ive been working on putting together a design for a new head and rotor for our pumps, basing them off the existing assemblies but reproducing them with some upgrades to handle the heavy loads of a high displacement pump with our modern dry diesel fuel. Next week I will get to test the first of these head and rotors in a ford db2 housing, the upgrades it has over stock are:
-.370" plungers over the stock .310"
-1/2" cam ring pin
-Single discharge rotor assembly vs the dual outlet on the factory assembly
-.050" extra stroke from the custom cam ring
-3/16" over bored delivery valve passage
With this using all new components, it solves a lot of problems with core quality and with the continued quality drop with stanadyne as their parts are being all built in china now, so the pumps are going to be a lot easier to setup and calibrate consistently, and I will be able to get much more fuel out of a fresh pump than trying to modify one half way through its lifespan, which makes for a longer lasting product for the customer as well. Working with the manufacturer I will have the ability to have these head and rotors built with .310 to .450" plungers, so once everything is dialed in and I work up to the larger plunger sizes, in theory should be able to make much more fuel than has
nelstomlinson
Full Access Member
That's good news, Wes, and I'm glad that you're posting it here as well as Facebook. I don't do Facebook.
Sounds as if these could also be excellent for a mild turbo'ed engine, in the 90cc/250hp range. Having a 200,000+ mile injection system to match the 200,000+ mile engine is a plus.
Sounds as if these could also be excellent for a mild turbo'ed engine, in the 90cc/250hp range. Having a 200,000+ mile injection system to match the 200,000+ mile engine is a plus.
Thanks, I know a good amount of people don’t use Facebook and the forums are still my preferred method for long form discussion like these threads, FB is a necessary evil to reach a broader audience for the business especially in younger audiences.
There certainly is nothing stopping us from making these new assemblies for even a bone stock calibration, and I plan to eventually offer that with the injectors as well so you can get the premium all new assembly with no performance modifications from the original nozzle designs, but the struggle with the process is the upfront cost for me. It’s about a three month wait for me from the date of putting the order in before I get a physical product I can test and possibly sell, so it’s going to start out with the performance pumps and injectors and trickle down to the other products as quick as I can.
There certainly is nothing stopping us from making these new assemblies for even a bone stock calibration, and I plan to eventually offer that with the injectors as well so you can get the premium all new assembly with no performance modifications from the original nozzle designs, but the struggle with the process is the upfront cost for me. It’s about a three month wait for me from the date of putting the order in before I get a physical product I can test and possibly sell, so it’s going to start out with the performance pumps and injectors and trickle down to the other products as quick as I can.
IDIBRONCO
IDIBRONCO
So the poor, old Shop Truck will get another fuel system? Maybe some day you'll have to put a huge turbo on it so you can hit the dyno again!
I don’t think I will be putting this pump on the shop truck, I’ve actually got a customer who I am going to be sponsoring with some parts and he will be doing some testing for me. I’m going to want an idit bottom end before I put more fuel to this engine, those na rods worry me.
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