I think you might have a point there.Agnem said:See, only you know your changing it. Everybody else just thinks your stealing it, and NOBODY is going to mess with a guy who's stealing an engine in broad daylight.
ZF5 Swap Progress
- Thread starter The Warden
- Start date
DO NOT TRY THIS WITHOUT PROPER EYE PROTECTION
I figured out this trick from changing out FWD transverse engine spark plugs.
Use sockets and adapters made for 1/2" impact gun work. Make sure all items have good working lock pins. Find the appropriate fitting socket, preferably a mid length type since it is deep enough to clear all the threads or a std short socket as long as there is enough "bite" on the hex. take 2 of the CV-type swivels pictured below and connect all the above items together with the appropriate length extension. with this setup, you should be able to get around the frame and into the bolts. the angles you will be working with are at the limits of the swivels and it will take off once the nut is unthreaded. The frame nut/bolt assy is designed to stay tight, so impact is the only way to get it loosened. Oh yea, you need the appropriate open end wrench for the bolt trapped between the frame and body.
I figured out this trick from changing out FWD transverse engine spark plugs.
Use sockets and adapters made for 1/2" impact gun work. Make sure all items have good working lock pins. Find the appropriate fitting socket, preferably a mid length type since it is deep enough to clear all the threads or a std short socket as long as there is enough "bite" on the hex. take 2 of the CV-type swivels pictured below and connect all the above items together with the appropriate length extension. with this setup, you should be able to get around the frame and into the bolts. the angles you will be working with are at the limits of the swivels and it will take off once the nut is unthreaded. The frame nut/bolt assy is designed to stay tight, so impact is the only way to get it loosened. Oh yea, you need the appropriate open end wrench for the bolt trapped between the frame and body.
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geneluo
Registered User
here i go!!!!!!
i have my truck up and running now....not perfect yet......but up and running.
the bolt you are having problems with (crossmember top bolt)i just slid a wrench in there and held it in place while i was cranking away with my other hand (1/2" breaker bar on a swivel) on the ground under the truck in the side walk. so......those bolts shouldn't be trouble. you will later have to drilll new holes for the crossmember and cut a new slot for the transfer case. none of the plugs and switches from the t19 will fit into the zf5 so....goood luck i used the luk fly and plate combo. and everything else will fall into place. if you need part #s for the rearend u joint conversion email me i have it some where.
i have my truck up and running now....not perfect yet......but up and running.
the bolt you are having problems with (crossmember top bolt)i just slid a wrench in there and held it in place while i was cranking away with my other hand (1/2" breaker bar on a swivel) on the ground under the truck in the side walk. so......those bolts shouldn't be trouble. you will later have to drilll new holes for the crossmember and cut a new slot for the transfer case. none of the plugs and switches from the t19 will fit into the zf5 so....goood luck i used the luk fly and plate combo. and everything else will fall into place. if you need part #s for the rearend u joint conversion email me i have it some where.
geneluo
Registered User
and there is an ear you have to cut off the zf5 if you're going turbo.....
Update:
As I mentioned before, I couldn't be there today...so this is all word-of-mouth from Seth. And, the word-of-mouth is good news!
As Gene mentioned, there's a ear on the ZF5 that has to be cut off before the downpipe can be re-installed. I was actually aware of this from the ATS manual, but Seth wasn't...so, the ear still needs to be cut off and the downpipe re-installed. Also, I found out what the difference is between the ZF and the T-19 floor pan inserts. I compared the two, and thought that they looked simiar enough that I decided to just leave the T-19 floor pan in place unless something cropped up and it turned out to need removal. However, the ZF5 is a bit taller than the T-19, so while the ZF fit in place, the top of the tranny is in contact with the bottom of the floor pan insert. So, we get to pull the floor pan insert, I get to drive home without one, and I get to cut a hole in the ZF floor pan for the BW 13-45 shift lever to come through.
But, other than those two things, the truck is done!! I haven't been able to see it myself yet, but according to Seth, he was able to get all of the crossmember bolts put in except for one on the driver's side. That one was one that he would need to drill a hole in the frame for, and he was worried about breaking my fuel lines in the process. I may try and drill the hole myself after I get the truck back, but we'll see what happens. The 13-45 transfer case bolted to the back of the ZF5 just fine, and the rear driveshaft was re-installed. So, other than the lack of a downpipe, the truck could actually be moved right now. The last bits get to be done tomorrow morning, and if time allows, the steering gearbox will hopefully be replaced also (if not, I get to figure out how to pull the Pitman arm myself...not looking forward to that!)
Gene, if memory serves, you took the 13-56 transfer case along with the ZF from the red & gray truck, right? Why didn't you pull the floor pan (that I actually now have)? Also, what plugs and switches are you referring to? I think I actually took care of everything...the reverse light switch is the only switch I know of on the ZF, and I pulled the one off my T-19 to go on there (it was less than a year old; I assume that Seth got it on there). As to the rest, I'm guessing that that has to do with the transfer case change... Also, what slot cutting are you referring to with the transfer case?
As I mentioned before, I couldn't be there today...so this is all word-of-mouth from Seth. And, the word-of-mouth is good news!
As Gene mentioned, there's a ear on the ZF5 that has to be cut off before the downpipe can be re-installed. I was actually aware of this from the ATS manual, but Seth wasn't...so, the ear still needs to be cut off and the downpipe re-installed. Also, I found out what the difference is between the ZF and the T-19 floor pan inserts. I compared the two, and thought that they looked simiar enough that I decided to just leave the T-19 floor pan in place unless something cropped up and it turned out to need removal. However, the ZF5 is a bit taller than the T-19, so while the ZF fit in place, the top of the tranny is in contact with the bottom of the floor pan insert. So, we get to pull the floor pan insert, I get to drive home without one, and I get to cut a hole in the ZF floor pan for the BW 13-45 shift lever to come through.
But, other than those two things, the truck is done!! I haven't been able to see it myself yet, but according to Seth, he was able to get all of the crossmember bolts put in except for one on the driver's side. That one was one that he would need to drill a hole in the frame for, and he was worried about breaking my fuel lines in the process. I may try and drill the hole myself after I get the truck back, but we'll see what happens. The 13-45 transfer case bolted to the back of the ZF5 just fine, and the rear driveshaft was re-installed. So, other than the lack of a downpipe, the truck could actually be moved right now. The last bits get to be done tomorrow morning, and if time allows, the steering gearbox will hopefully be replaced also (if not, I get to figure out how to pull the Pitman arm myself...not looking forward to that!)
Gene, if memory serves, you took the 13-56 transfer case along with the ZF from the red & gray truck, right? Why didn't you pull the floor pan (that I actually now have)? Also, what plugs and switches are you referring to? I think I actually took care of everything...the reverse light switch is the only switch I know of on the ZF, and I pulled the one off my T-19 to go on there (it was less than a year old; I assume that Seth got it on there). As to the rest, I'm guessing that that has to do with the transfer case change... Also, what slot cutting are you referring to with the transfer case?
UPDATE
And...the truck drives! I still have to put the transfer case shift linkage, the floor pan insert, and the front driveshaft (among other things) in, but I got the truck home...and plan to put everything back together this afternoon.
The truck...it's a whole new vehicle. I recall hearing that the T-19 was changed in mid-'84 to improve the gear ratios to suit the diesel, and that the ZF5 gear ratios are the same as a later T-19. Today proved to me that I had an early T-19. In addition to having an overdrive
, Gears 1-4 are so much better spaced that I almost can't believe it. With the old T-19, I was in 4th gear by 35mph...whereas, with the ZF, I can get to almost 50mph in 3rd before the engine sounds wound-out...not that I normally do that, though 
One issue has come up, though...with the clutch depressed, I'm hearing a weird noise. It's like a rubbing noise, but it almost sounds like a hiss. Seth's auto shop teacher said that he thinks that it's the throwout bearing, and that it just needs to break in. Does that make sense, or any thoughts? Also, is there anything special I need to do to break in the clutch?
Thank you all again!
And...the truck drives! I still have to put the transfer case shift linkage, the floor pan insert, and the front driveshaft (among other things) in, but I got the truck home...and plan to put everything back together this afternoon.
The truck...it's a whole new vehicle. I recall hearing that the T-19 was changed in mid-'84 to improve the gear ratios to suit the diesel, and that the ZF5 gear ratios are the same as a later T-19. Today proved to me that I had an early T-19. In addition to having an overdrive
, Gears 1-4 are so much better spaced that I almost can't believe it. With the old T-19, I was in 4th gear by 35mph...whereas, with the ZF, I can get to almost 50mph in 3rd before the engine sounds wound-out...not that I normally do that, though One issue has come up, though...with the clutch depressed, I'm hearing a weird noise. It's like a rubbing noise, but it almost sounds like a hiss. Seth's auto shop teacher said that he thinks that it's the throwout bearing, and that it just needs to break in. Does that make sense, or any thoughts? Also, is there anything special I need to do to break in the clutch?
Thank you all again!
geneluo
Registered User
i changed transfer cases so the slots for the hi lo lever doesn't line up so i had to cut a 2"x4 1/2" slot so it will come through the floor pan.
NapaBavarian
Dually driver 6.9
I had that sound when I replaced my clutch a couple months ago, went away within a hundred or a couple hundred miles. The new clutch isn't smooth, it has a very light machine cut pattern, so it could be the surface of the clutch disc rubing on the flywheel.
Gene, I see what you mean...does the transfer case lever on your truck go through the same floor pan insert that the tranny gearshift lever goes through, or does it go through a hole in the "main" floor pan? It seems tha tmany newer trucks have the lever going through the "main" floor pan, while older trucks have it go through the insert.
Karl, that's good to hear; I was starting to wonder if Seth had maybe installed the throwout bearing backwards (haven't checked yet, but I probably still will). I've been under the truck ever since making that post, and have already noticed a few PEBKAC problems, particularly the fact that EVERY SINGLE bolt holding the crossmember on was loose, and one had fallen out
Other than that, all I've really needed to do is reroute wires (he seemed to forget that there's a driveshaft going to the front of the truck as well, and had some wires dangerously close to the front driveshaft path), but still...not looking forward to finding any more "surprises", and I'm back to work on the truck...
Karl, that's good to hear; I was starting to wonder if Seth had maybe installed the throwout bearing backwards (haven't checked yet, but I probably still will). I've been under the truck ever since making that post, and have already noticed a few PEBKAC problems, particularly the fact that EVERY SINGLE bolt holding the crossmember on was loose, and one had fallen out
Other than that, all I've really needed to do is reroute wires (he seemed to forget that there's a driveshaft going to the front of the truck as well, and had some wires dangerously close to the front driveshaft path), but still...not looking forward to finding any more "surprises", and I'm back to work on the truck...
tim-The Warden said:I was starting to wonder if Seth had maybe installed the throwout bearing backwards (haven't checked yet, but I probably still will). I've been under the truck ever since making that post, and have already noticed a few PEBKAC problems, particularly the fact that EVERY SINGLE bolt holding the crossmember on was loose, and one had fallen out
the TOB only goes on one way.
also, there is no substitute to the factory nuts and bolts for tying frames and crossmembers together. They are a **** to take off and put on for a reason. The bolts need to resist not only vibration but torsional stress too. Do yourself a favor and go get some new ones. If Ford doesn't have them(very likely) drop by the IH stealership on 4th and Gish and they will definitely have them there. Just go in with a sample of what you need and whatever you do....don't hum and haw about the price....they'll throw you out pronto. The nut and bolt assys are not cheap but worth every penny. I use them on all service body mountings and never had a complaint of bolts loosening up. good luck.
So, 1/2" Grade-8 fine-thread bolts each with two flat washers and a lock washer aren't enough?
BTW, it's not just the crossmember bolts that were loose...so were the nuts holding the U-bolts that hold the U-joints to the yokes on the rear axle, along with the bolts holding the carrier bearing up... *sigh* I'm going to have to have some words with him...
BTW, it's not just the crossmember bolts that were loose...so were the nuts holding the U-bolts that hold the U-joints to the yokes on the rear axle, along with the bolts holding the carrier bearing up... *sigh* I'm going to have to have some words with him...
geneluo
Registered User
the new lever goes through a new hole i cut on the body part of the floorpan....not the screw on insert. i covered the old hole and put a piece of carpet over for the air and noise.
Not when I do a build. If you do insist on using that hardware, get the strongest loctite and cover the threads. Frame bolts not only holds things down, but they also keep the side to side (parts twisting)stresses contained. Need proof? get one of your wheels up on a sidewalk and see how the frame is twisted.The Warden said:So, 1/2" Grade-8 fine-thread bolts each with two flat washers and a lock washer aren't enough?
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