hotrodharley
Registered User
I have a us gear aux trans and my motor is bad;;seen on here that the 4 season 35521 shift motor works on the DNE'S ;;think it would work on my us gear since mine uses the electronic box on firewall to shut motor off?
US Gear Dual Range / Doug Nash Info
- Thread starter jaluhn83
- Start date
I recall someone saying that it would work, but I don't know for sure...and, I don't know if anyone's actually done it. If you do end up going that route, PLEASE post results!
jaluhn83
Full Access Member
Yes, the motor should work. The one I have fits physically although it did seem to turn a bit faster than the old one - not sure if that's a design difference or simply new vs worn.
Tim, the motor is the same, the difference is control via a limit switch (DNE) or a timer (USG). What you need is either a time delay relay or simply to just throw a DNE style limit switch in. Simple....
Tim, the motor is the same, the difference is control via a limit switch (DNE) or a timer (USG). What you need is either a time delay relay or simply to just throw a DNE style limit switch in. Simple....
A DNE style limit switch can be fitted into a later U.S. Gear unit? That could make things a LOT simpler...I have an extra DNE unit I grabbed for parts (an under-drive with C6 adapter) that I'm 99% sure has the motor/limit switch completely intact. Ooh...
jaluhn83
Full Access Member
It should. I'm pretty sure that how I set mine up when I put it back together. The USG setup has insulated studs on the cover plate for the connections, but I'm 99% sure they're in exactly the same spot to fit the switch assembly, you'll just need to make sure the insulating sleeves/o-rings are on there correctly.
I'd put a new limit switch in - they're cheap. No reason to mess with changing the motor over, it's the same.
I'd put a new limit switch in - they're cheap. No reason to mess with changing the motor over, it's the same.
Where can the limit switch be sourced? I agree that a new one would be better; I just wasn't sure if they were available.
jaluhn83
Full Access Member
junk
Full Access Member
My Us gear has a motor on it very similar looking to an Eaton 2-speed motor. But my motor has the electrical connections out the rear vs out the front and through the side of the case with limit switches. I have the control unit that times and reverses vs using limit switches.
If i didn't have a controller I would consider putting the limit switches in and running it that way. doesn't the limit switches then reverse polarity? So the electric motor grounds though the case and the leads are for fwd / reverse? VS the electric unit reverses polarity at the controller. so my electric motor with wires out the rear only has 2 connections + and - VS FWD, REV & gnd.
That sound right or am I all wet?
If i didn't have a controller I would consider putting the limit switches in and running it that way. doesn't the limit switches then reverse polarity? So the electric motor grounds though the case and the leads are for fwd / reverse? VS the electric unit reverses polarity at the controller. so my electric motor with wires out the rear only has 2 connections + and - VS FWD, REV & gnd.
That sound right or am I all wet?
jaluhn83
Full Access Member
Seems like there's 2 different USG versions. Mine has the same motor as the DNE using wires out the front just with studs through the cover instead of a limit switch. Yes, the style you have with only 2 leads would be harder to convert, but as long as the side cover is the same you could still likely use a early style motor and switch.
So I'm kind of confused. I got a us gear dual range but only the unit with the cut wires hanging off. I don't know if this was used on an automatic or manual. From what I understand, they are the same right? If I wanted to hook this up to a manual with a push pull switch, then I would need the limit switch also? And if I used a 3 position on/off/on momentary switch, I just hold the switch for 2+ seconds? I really would like to use a push pull switch so any detailed help on how to make that work is appreciated.
I'm still not understanding. It says the us gear box should run until power is removed, approx 2 seconds. Which I understand if I was using a 3 position momentary switch. But if I wanted to use a push pull switch, once I pulled up, power would be constant and it seems even when pushed down the same thing. So how would I get a push pull switch to remain pulled up but only momentary power for the shift?
Or would I be correct in assuming that if I were to open up my box, I would find a switch similar to the limit switch I can buy at rock auto, I then take out mine and replace with the one from rock auto, then when I push or pull my switch, the power is cut off automatically until I push or pull the switch again? If so can someone help direct me on how to remove my switch and correctly wire the new one from rock auto?
jaluhn83
Full Access Member
The difference between UD & OD is in the gears. The housing, shift mechanism, etc is the same. The only way to convert one to another would be to swap the entire gearset, which means finding a good set of OD gears. These are helical and the input/output gears and integral with the respective shafts so there is no way to swap them around. From a practical point of view you're best bet is to find a complete box with the correct gearing.
I am unclear if you have an UD or OD. You say you found it's an underdrive, but in your PM you also mention the output turning 1.25 turns for each turn of the input, which would be an overdrive.
The shift motor is a reversable DC motor that grounds through the case. Each of the 2 motor leads will make it run one or the other direction if connected to power. The earlier Doug Nash design used a mechanical limit switch inside the housing to control the motor. Power is applied continually to the appropriate case terminal, and the motor runs in that direction until the mechanical linkage moves enough to open the limit switch at which point the motor stops. Power can still be applied to the external terminal since the limit switch interrupts it. This design allows the use of a simple 2 position switch for control.
The later US Gear system eliminates this switch and instead uses an electronic timer to interrupt power after a set time. With this style there is no physical switch, and applying power to the gear box terminal would cause the motor to run continually and eventually burn up.
On most systems there is a mechanical limit system in the shifter leadscrew which allows the motor to continue to turn after the end of the travel is reached (ie it doesn't stall, rather continues to spin and the screw slips). On the older control system this doesn't matter because the switch cuts off power at the same time, but on the newer style it allows the motor to spin after full travel is reached if the electronic control doesn't cut power at the same time.
You could easily use a 2 position momentary switch for control, you'd just need to hold it down for ~2 seconds when you wanted to shift. Just wire each side of the momentary to one of the external box terminals and ground the case. The sensors on the case can then be wired to indicator lights to show what gear it's in. Of note, the motor loads a spring, so the indicator lights woln't shift until you unload the driveline and actually shift - there's no indication of the shift preload, so you don't have anything to tell you when to let off the momentary switch, you'll just have to count 1-2 seconds and trust it's ready to shift.
Automatic vs manual are generally the same except that there is some variation in input shaft designs. I think essentially all the Ford boxes are the same, the 2wd T-19 uses a special adapter shaft but the box is the same. GM & Chrsyler apps have some different shaft designs I think. The shifter electronics vary too, but this isn't a big deal. Manuals use a push/pull switch while auto uses a pushbutton in each case mounted on the shifter. Early control auto systems used a latching headlight relay, later design has the functionality as part of the blackbox controller. Early manual systems directly wired a push pull switch to the box, later ones use the same switch but run it through a different blackbox.
I am unclear if you have an UD or OD. You say you found it's an underdrive, but in your PM you also mention the output turning 1.25 turns for each turn of the input, which would be an overdrive.
The shift motor is a reversable DC motor that grounds through the case. Each of the 2 motor leads will make it run one or the other direction if connected to power. The earlier Doug Nash design used a mechanical limit switch inside the housing to control the motor. Power is applied continually to the appropriate case terminal, and the motor runs in that direction until the mechanical linkage moves enough to open the limit switch at which point the motor stops. Power can still be applied to the external terminal since the limit switch interrupts it. This design allows the use of a simple 2 position switch for control.
The later US Gear system eliminates this switch and instead uses an electronic timer to interrupt power after a set time. With this style there is no physical switch, and applying power to the gear box terminal would cause the motor to run continually and eventually burn up.
On most systems there is a mechanical limit system in the shifter leadscrew which allows the motor to continue to turn after the end of the travel is reached (ie it doesn't stall, rather continues to spin and the screw slips). On the older control system this doesn't matter because the switch cuts off power at the same time, but on the newer style it allows the motor to spin after full travel is reached if the electronic control doesn't cut power at the same time.
You could easily use a 2 position momentary switch for control, you'd just need to hold it down for ~2 seconds when you wanted to shift. Just wire each side of the momentary to one of the external box terminals and ground the case. The sensors on the case can then be wired to indicator lights to show what gear it's in. Of note, the motor loads a spring, so the indicator lights woln't shift until you unload the driveline and actually shift - there's no indication of the shift preload, so you don't have anything to tell you when to let off the momentary switch, you'll just have to count 1-2 seconds and trust it's ready to shift.
Automatic vs manual are generally the same except that there is some variation in input shaft designs. I think essentially all the Ford boxes are the same, the 2wd T-19 uses a special adapter shaft but the box is the same. GM & Chrsyler apps have some different shaft designs I think. The shifter electronics vary too, but this isn't a big deal. Manuals use a push/pull switch while auto uses a pushbutton in each case mounted on the shifter. Early control auto systems used a latching headlight relay, later design has the functionality as part of the blackbox controller. Early manual systems directly wired a push pull switch to the box, later ones use the same switch but run it through a different blackbox.
