Timing problems, clutch problems.

[94turboidi]

Okay I have posted about this recently but thought I would start a fresh thread to get some more ideas. I appreciate all the help I have got on here. My biggest problem is the clutch. I put in a new clutch set (pressure plate, clutch disc, pilot bearing, throwout bearing), welded dmf, new clutch fork, new master and slave. Well I have done a ton of bleeding. Yesterday I even removed the entire master/slave assembly with the line and bench bled it. I did this a few times and even got a vacuum bleeder and pumped a whole quart of fluid through it. I put it back on and no difference. I can get about 1/2" of movement at the pushrod on the slave cylinder. I have been reading every thread I can on bleeding problems and trying every trick. I just called a shop and the only thing he could think of was to put a block of wood to keep the clutch pedal down for several hours so maybe some air bubbles could work their way up. I have been working on this for several ideas and even second guessing my work I did on the clutch itself. I have driven it to town trying to work any air out and I still can't get it to shift with the clutch, I just have to match the engine speed just right to get it in and out of gear talk about a PITA!

Okay my second problem once I get the clutch working is the timing. I had the injector pump off and put a paint mark on both gears when I removed it but I am starting to think I must have installed it a tooth off? The timing is retarded. I have moved it as far to the passenger side as I can and The smoke has changed from blue to like a gray smoke. I can't really get any black smoke. It is also starting really bad, not like how it usually runs. I have all new motorcraft plugs and they are staying on alot longer than the autolites but I don't hear any clicking like I used to so maybe it something with that? I have a glowplug controller not a manual switch and I believe all the wiring it hooked up right. I keep thinking it has to be a timing problem because of the way it starts even when plugged in all night. I am ready to be done with the truck or park it for awhile. Christmas is coming up and I need to move on to other projects. Anyone want a truck? Lots a new parts!

 

[94turboidi]

I removed the injector pump tonight and bought a small mirror and flashlight and hoping to line up the y marks on the gears then reinstall. The turbo sure is in the way now. I wish I would have just static timed it while the engine was clear apart and then reinstalled the pump into the cover. I am thinking I had it off 1 tooth. I am leaving the clutch pedal pressed down untill I get done w/ the injector pump and maybe any air bubbles will work their way up by the time I am done but I doubt it.

 

[hesutton]

There is some good information on fixing and checking the IP gear timing HERE.

There has to be something simple on the clutch that is causing the problem. I'd give the fork, TOB, a good once over, just to be sure the fork in on the ball, in the TOB properly, and the TOB is moving properly.

Heath

 

[94turboidi]

I know the clutch fork is on the ball but once I am done messing with the timing if the clutch is still acting up I will give a look at how its on the tob. Bad thing is I have to remove that dang slave again and its a pain to put in. I don't have the plastic strap anymore either, I forgot to unclip it from the slave and let it snap when I pressed the pedal. What I have been doing is using a small ratchet strap around the clutch fork to the truck to pull it back and then pushing the pushrod in by hand on the slave and putting it all together, I wish they just bolted on to the side of the trans. The fork is brand new but I dunno. I greased everything when I put it together also. I wish someone was local to me and felt like coming over! Haha no I will get it eventually. I think whats fighting me a little is I am not that experienced with manual transmissions, this is actually the first I have owned but man I am just about positive there is no air in the system. It doesn't start moving the slave cylinder right away when I push down on the pedal though. Does anyone know if 1/2" is enough travel at the fork? Also I found an adjustable pushrod for 12.00 from napa that I am going to try and get maybe that will help some. It doesn't feel like anything is binding. I can't see any flex in the firewall. I did notice some play in the pedal bushings, not the one that the pushrod pushes against but the one that the arm is attached to.

 

[94turboidi]

Hmm so looking at that thread maybe I can just line up the holes in the gear to the pump cover? That looks promising. I think I am just a tooth off. I love this site.

 

[hesutton]

Hmm so looking at that thread maybe I can just line up the holes in the gear to the pump cover? That looks promising. I think I am just a tooth off. I love this site.

Tom, I hope that will confirm if your timing is on or off. It sure would have been easy to do that with the motor out and with the front cover off. The nice thing about the IDI, once you put the IP gear cover on, there is not enough room for it to jump out of time. Even if you rotate the motor a 100 times (trust me...., I did it on the crew cabs 6.9). You just have to be careful not to move that gear when you put the front cover on. Pop on the IP gear cover, and your set. You can then install the IP at your leasure.

Heath

 

[94turboidi]

Yeah I am kicking myself! It was cold and I had a zillion parts to install and was kind of rushing.

 

[oldblue05]

I had the same problem a while back with my clutch, after pulling the transmission. After screwin with it for hours I came up with an idea that doesn't make a bit of sense but desperation of wanting to go to the bar made me give it a shot just for the hell of it. I had a buddy who was helping me(mainly drink my beer) pushing the clutch pedal while I would bleed the slave out, I grabbed a tape measure and told him to push the pedal in; I then measured the gap between the fork and the housing with the slave pushed out all it would go. Then fired up my table saw and ripped a piece of wood about 2 foot long to just thicker than the gap, told my buddy to push the pedal again and wedged the board into the gap and told him to let of and push the pedal again... F@#$%N MAGIC! The damn slave pushed out all the way and it's worked flawlessly for a year. Seemed like the slave just needed to get an extra bite, I dunno but it worked for me. Oh the reason I said that the wood was 2 foot long was in case I needed to use it as a pry bar to move the fork.

 

[94turboidi]

I need to read that more but not really understanding where you put the wood. Is it in between the slave and fork? I can barely get the slave in there let alone get anything wedged in between there. I am going to go to town later and try to buy that adjustable push rod for the master cylinder.

 

[94turboidi]

Okay well got it back together and it must be too advanced now! I am going to try this:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/k2pilot/Timing article.htm

Hope that works. Why do I have to learn everything the hard way?

 

[hesutton]

Hang in there Tom. Sorry this truck is fighting you so much.

Heath

 

[94turboidi]

Yeah I will get there, Mel has been trying to help also so this site is my trucks life support at the moment. Thanks for your help Heath. Now I am not sure if you have looked at that link I posted I found it in a search. I took it all apart and left the gear there where I had it when it was running advanced and turned the engine until the crank was at the zero mark and felt like it was on a compression stroke. Well I expected to see the "Y" mark facing fairly close to down but its sideways.

 

[oldblue05]

I need to read that more but not really understanding where you put the wood. Is it in between the slave and fork? I can barely get the slave in there let alone get anything wedged in between there. I am going to go to town later and try to buy that adjustable push rod for the master cylinder.

Put it between the fork and the bracket that the slave clips on, sorry my last post wasn't clear. I know it sounds dumb but it freakin worked.

 

[94turboidi]

Okay I went through the pics on my phone of when I had it all apart and it appears that even though I didn't touch the cam or crank gears someone has had it before because it doesn't look like the dots on the 2 gears would ever line up. I guess my plan is to try and retard it 1 tooth from what I had today which is where I thought I had it but not sure it might have slipped a tooth when I put it together the first time and maybe today I advanced it 2 teeth? I don't think theres much room for error so it would have to be back 1 tooth. Could the cam or crank gears of been put on by someone before me in the wrong direction or is there only one way they can go on? It all looks about 90 degrees off of where it should if I tried to set it up correctly. I counted out the 19 teeth from the y mark on both sides and made a straight marker mark across and then one straight up from the y and was going to install it but theres no way it could be a whole 90 degrees off from where I had it good enough to run before?

 

[94turboidi]

Okay actually I really studied that picture and the engine is upsdie down but if you look at the crank gear where the dimple is and count to the left and then look at where it meshes into the timing gear and count around where it would come into contact and I think I see the y mark so it would line the y mark and the dimple up which would be 180 degrees off and then another revolution and both dimples should line up and I would be able to put the y marks together from the cam to injector pump. I just can't figure out why when I put the crank line at the 0 timing mark it shows the timing gear being turned about 90 degrees from where I had the engine running. Makes me think that its not really TDC when its at that mark.