Starting issues after solenoid relay replaced

[Big Bart]

FYI if you need the truck while you figure things out you can turn the key to on and use a wire from the positive post on the battery to the small red wire on the small post on the top side of the starter soleniod. That will energise you starter soleniod and the truck will start. When you turn the key off it will shut off.

Another concern I have is the small guage wire on the left big post on the starter soleniod.(Closest big post to front bumper.). It is black in the picture above but guessing that is heat shrink that is black. What does that wire hook to? If the starter that wire should be upgraded. It should have a heavy guage battery size cable.

 

[WrightWay]

Tried some things this morning. Appreciate the continued input.
No change with clutch to floor. Dash lights and gps but no crank
Wire from battery to small top post on solenoid: solenoid clicks but stater does not turn over
Cable from pos battery to left large post on solenoid (black/red wire in photo) with key on, results in starter turning over well, truck would start.
The black/red wire with shrink tape you mentioned goes to the starter. It is the lower red wire in photo. Seems large gauge but not large enough, been replaced at some point?

 

[Big Bart]

Ok if I read this correctly if you energize the starter soleniod using the small post on the top with +12v dc the soleniod clicks but the starter does not turn.

But if you use a jumper cable from the positive battery post to the big post on the starter solenoid closet to the battery, the truck starts.

So we fixed the dash power issue but still have a start issue. But when putting good power to the starter cable, the starter seems to work.

If correct then some thoughts.

1) The wire from the starter soleniod to the starter has been changed. It is too small of a guage and likely could be causing/compounding your issues. Suggest you change it out to the right one. It can be putting a strain on the soleniod, starter, or battery connection. Causing one or more to go bad due to high amps and heat.

2) You put in a new starter solenoid. So it could be bad or the the red wire (Or it’s connectors.) that comes from the battery to it is not good and so it is not sending/delivering enough power to the starter.(But it looks beefy and good. Compounding this is the under sized wire to the starter.) I would hook a battery jumper cable from the positive post of your battery to the big post closest to your firewall. (See if there is a problem with power to the soleniod.) Then try to start the truck a couple of times.
A) If it starts say 5 times, that would mean the line from your battery to the starter soleniod is bad or has a bad connection.
B) If the truck does not start but the soleniod clicks it is a bad solenoid so replace it again. That sub par wire to the starter could have roasted your new starter relay.

3) Keep testing the starter through this process by using a jumper cable from the positive battery post to the big terminal going to the starter. It could be your starter is working intermittently, so you need to rule that out.

You challenge is you have three or possibly four problems. (Perfect storm.) So one is fixed but you have more to fix, like the starter power cable. Then it is figuring out if the soleniod is bad or not getting good power. Or is the starter only working at times. But start with a new starter cable because that is not the right one.

 

[WrightWay]

Your interpretation is correct

1) I will change this wire. Is is something I can order or I need to make? if so what gauge wire is appropriate?
I will get a new solenoid and try Motocraft again

I put old solenoid back on and testing is the same-just clicks

2) When I hook a battery cable from pos battery to large post nearest firewall where battery wire comes into solenoid, I get no activity. Nada
3) Power to starter terminal (closest to battery) results in starting turning over each time.

 

[gnathv]

I replaced my ignition switch (on column) and it wouldn’t start unless I manually pushed pin a little further, when I took it back to auto parts store they weren’t surprised. Could still be “new” switch. It was Borg Warner.

 

[WrightWay]

Further testing with old solenoid on (Motocraft), when I energize the top small post, the solenoid clicks and the starter now turns over as it should. So it appears the solenoid, starter, and wire to starter from solenoid are working.
No change still if I ask it to start with key. Dash lights etc. but no starter action
When I can get time again, I will investigate the ignition switch, although when I look over the old switch I do not see any spot for adjustment

 

[WrightWay]

I just saw your post gnathv. Thanks. When you took the Borg-Warner ignition switch back, do you recall what brand did you replace it with?

 

[gnathv]

I got an old one from junk yard lol it was better than the new parts they make today. If you can trace the small wire from fender relay to switch on column, jump 12v to that end and see if it starts. (a volt meter would help).

 

[Selahdoor]

That little red wire on the left large terminal with the black shrink wrap is way too small. It should be the same size as the red one and should go straight to the battery positive. Nowhere else. That wire is so small that I doubt it can feed the GPs and the starter at the same time, without burning up. At least eventually. Ans is probably causing problems inside the new solenoid, and with the GPs, and who knows what else...

The red one should go to the starter.

The double wire feeds the glow plugs.

The ***** is loose. Tighten that. It might be a cause of intermittent ground to the solenoid inner switch. Yes I know there is a bolt in the other hole. Tighten it anyway. Whether it is a problem or not, leaving something like that, is contrary to progress when you are troubleshooting.

The last wire, at the top. When the truck is not starting, unhook that wire. Connect a test light to it, and then try to start the truck. If the test light does not light up, the solenoid is not getting power from the ignition switch.

You already know that you can pull that off. Then connect a wire to the battery positive, and touch it to that bare terminal, and the starter should turn over.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[WrightWay]

Good info
Tightened that *****. Will try the test light on top post wire you have marked IGN
The wire you have marked STARTER goes directly to positive on battery on this truck
The too small wire on left terminal apppears to go to starter. What gauge should it be? I'll change it
Out of time now so I'll repost later

 

[Selahdoor]

Excellent!

That wire going down to the starter should be the same size as the large one coming from the battery.

Kind of strange that this board censors the word s c r e w, given that we might discuss the use of same in our discussions.

Also, I should have realized that that cable goes to the battery. GPs don't only operate when the starter is engaged. You want those fed from the constant feed from the battery. I had them backwards. But the point still is that both of those cables should be large like the red one coming from the battery.

Here is the amended pic.

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[hacked89]

It's the low amp signaling wire.. It's fine size..
Don't want to have too many mechanics in the engine bay here but the only way to accuretly tell you how to hook this up is every wiring being traced to exactly what nut and post it's connected to especially on the starter solenoid itself. Knowing that me, selahdoor whoever could tell you how to wire it. There's more than one way to wire a relay. I bet your high amp line off the starter solenoid is going directly to the battery. Instead of the relay. Betting that's also what's the ambiguous part from what selahdoor is thinking.

My bad if anything I said above is already covered. Tapatalk is broken currently on the site and its tough to read through everything on mobile so I didn't get to read your whole thread. Figured this may help if you are working on it tonight.

I explain how to bypass the relay to turn the motor over for compression test in this video, it will show you the solenoid setup. Start at 1:30.

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[TNBrett]

Excellent!

That wire going down to the starter should be the same size as the large one coming from the battery.

Kind of strange that this board censors the word s c r e w, given that we might discuss the use of same in our discussions.

Also, I should have realized that that cable goes to the battery. GPs don't only operate when the starter is engaged. You want those fed from the constant feed from the battery. I had them backwards. But the point still is that both of those cables should be large like the red one coming from the battery.

Here is the amended pic.

You must be registered for see images attach

I hate to sound like a ****, but using the right words can be helpful here. What is pictured here is the starter relay. The solenoid is part of the starter motor itself. The wire running from the relay down to the starter solenoid is the factory size wire, and looks original to me. It is large enough, all it has to do is energize the solenoid on the starter.

The fender mounted starter relay serves two functions. First, it serves as a junction for the positive feed to the glow plugs. Secondly, it provides switching for the starter solenoid, which reduces the amount of current that has to pass through the ignition switch. For example let’s say that the solenoid on the starter draws 30 amps (this is just to make contact, and push the starter gear out). If you ran 30 amps through the ignition switch, they would burn up even faster than they already do. But, that wire is more than sufficient to handle the 30 amps.

The reason the cable from the battery to the starter relay is so much larger is that it has to carry the current for the glow plugs as well as the starter solenoid.

 

[hacked89]

Yea same thing I said guess it wasn't covered earlier in the thread. I'll make a YouTube video to talk about it on my run stand. There's been quite a few threads questioning and some misinformation on how the starter relay works. I give the benefit of doubt in my post though because you can run the high amp solenoid line to the battery side of the relay if you wanted to and it sounded like it's being confused with the low amp solenoid signaling wire.. The one I said is a fine size..

 

[Selahdoor]

I stand corrected.

I should have gone out and had a look at mine, rather than just go on memory.