Sloooow crank, tried everything!

[needlenose]

You stated that you replaced the pos cable, but not the ground. I did the starter shuffle as well with no results. Starter was limp at best.

I ran all new 4/0 welding cable and its hilarious the difference it made. It didnt make any difference how clean I made the ground contacts.

I guess the strands corrode over internally and dont conduct with the other strands well enough. The cables looked fine.

 

[DavidS]

Thanks needlenose, when I went to the shop to get the positive cables I was feeling a little cheap and the negative cables look fine but as you said they can deteriorate inside the insulation...Maybe I'll run a jumper cable down to the starter housing and see if that makes any difference.

 

[needlenose]

I did the same thing. I actually called a starter guy and asked about modding my brand new starter and he more or less berated "guys like me" who just throw in auto parts store cables and expect them to work.

He quoted me about $500 to make all new cables for my truck.

So I bought a small hydraulic crimper with all the dies that does up to 5/0(?) off of Amazon for around $80 or so. Also the cables ends off of Amazon for about $15. Then red and black fine-strand 4/0 welding cable from wireandcabletogo.com. I believe it was about $110 shipped. I also bought some cable cutters from Horror Fright for about $15.

It took me about 1.5hrs to measure/cut/crimp everything together. It's been gravy ever since.

I went back later and added marine grade shrinkable tubing with the internal adhesive on all the ends.

The cables are one of the single best upgrades I've made on the truck. After 3 years of the truck hard starting in anything below 70 degrees, it's a grand feeling to hop in and snap that thing to life in about a rev and a half. And that's with a cheap AutoZone starter.

 

[FordGuy100]

I did the same thing. I actually called a starter guy and asked about modding my brand new starter and he more or less berated "guys like me" who just throw in auto parts store cables and expect them to work.

He quoted me about $500 to make all new cables for my truck.

So I bought a small hydraulic crimper with all the dies that does up to 5/0(?) off of Amazon for around $80 or so. Also the cables ends off of Amazon for about $15. Then red and black fine-strand 4/0 welding cable from wireandcabletogo.com. I believe it was about $110 shipped. I also bought some cable cutters from Horror Fright for about $15.

It took me about 1.5hrs to measure/cut/crimp everything together. It's been gravy ever since.

I went back later and added marine grade shrinkable tubing with the internal adhesive on all the ends.

The cables are one of the single best upgrades I've made on the truck. After 3 years of the truck hard starting in anything below 70 degrees, it's a grand feeling to hop in and snap that thing to life in about a rev and a half. And that's with a cheap AutoZone starter.

Do you remember off the top of your head how many feet of cable you bought? Something like ~20'?

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

Replace the starter and negative leads. Reinforce the grounds to the frame/body of the truck as well. With fresh batteries, it should crank over solid.

Id venture to say that the starter that is on it does perform fine on a test bench and passes spec... But I had a starter do the same until placed under a load. No load, it was drawing over 300 amps... under load, almost 1200 and the 2/0 cables were getting hot. But it still functioned on the test bench. Just had no grunt under load.

 

[needlenose]

Do you remember off the top of your head how many feet of cable you bought? Something like ~20'?

I bought 12' red, 10' black. 10' is the minimum purchase length. I ended up with a little left over in both colors. About 1.5' red, and 4' of black. I will probably run a 2nd ground somewhere just to provide the proper amount of overkill. ;-)

And I found the receipt, it was $124 shipped.

 

[riotwarrior]

I strongly suggest u replace grounds.

Like mblany i to build my own cables....however I crimp solder amd heatshrink

I also run a balance ground wire from battery to battery.

My cables are 3/0 pos n neg amd 4 gua for a balance ground...

JM7.3CW Eh!

 

[DavidS]

OK update: Didn't have as much time as I had hoped to work on it over the weekend and also needed to get the 88 fixed so I could take the ever growing pile in the bed to the dump. Turned out I failed in that regard too since the SS brake line kit that LMC sent me for the 88 didn't fit. Ugh. But that's a different story.

Anyway I was in NAPA getting brake fluid and mentioned my starter issues on the 94. I told him the NAPA sticker was still on the starter and he said oh just bring it in and exchange it and then you'll know for sure! So I did that. No difference, still slow crank. I then took a set of jumper cables and ran both clamps from the negative post of the passenger battery down to the starter housing. That made no difference. I figured if it was a ground issue that would have sped it up a little at least. So I guess I'm back to pulling the glow plugs and making sure I don't have internal resistance. My neighbor also said to make sure I don't have a birdsnest in the exhaust. Always a helpful neighbor around...

 

[flexneck]

i also recommend keep looking at your grounds/wires. by-passing with jumper cables isn't reliable, i have tried the same with a 6.9 in a 84 F350 that was a wiring disaster. as if to prove this point, my current 6.9 in a E350 didn't properly crank until i checked, cleaned and re-tightend all the battery grounds, to each other and to the frame. which was surprising since, it cranked fine when i was bleeding the fuel lines without plugs in (in order so save my starter, these old guys don't really survive repeated continued cranking for more than 15-20secs at a time with a full load - another 84 F350 lesson)

 

[junk]

Really weird. If the cables look bad I'd replace them. I've had good luck with pre-made cables vs built cables. But to each their own. Also make sure all connections are clean and tight.

Sure does sound like a cable issue though. unless the engine is tight and needs internal work. I'd probably pop the belt drive off as it's fairly quick. Then try again.

Also if you are using jumper cables you gotta make sure they are the good ones. None of that small gauge wire crap. They gotta be big.

 

[DavidS]

The ground cable look fine. But as others have pointed out they can be bad on the inside. I just figured the jumper cables would speed up the crank a little at least if ground was the issue.

When I get back to it I'll take of the serpentine belt then try the starter, then take out the plugs and try again if no luck.

 

[Thewespaul]

I've had better luck changing grounds out to fix this problem than positive leads

 

[riotwarrior]

In all likelyhood corrosion not seen inside the ground wires is the issue. Its a green buildup that surrounds eah strand of wire pushing away fro the mext one...ultimately causimg a great reducfion in connectivity due to increased resistance umder load.

A multi meter wont scope it out.

Replace groumd wires and see if problem continues or not.

Other option as u said remove all gp n see if spins free or still drags bad...but my best guess is grounds...I will attempt to get pics tomorrow...

My son n I just cut open what HE thouhjt was an OK cable....he got schooled

JM7.3CW Eh!

 

[DavidS]

Thanks riotwarrior, I would definitely like to see those pics if you can post them!

 

[DavidS]

Update...After months of not feeling like messing with it/GF doesn't think watching me work on the truck constitutes a fun afternoon, I finally removed the serp belt and glow plugs and put a 16" breaker bar on the balancer bolt. Nothing. I might have moved it a degree or 2 with all my strength. So unless I'm missing something I guess that means the engine is tight/has internal issues. Anybody have guidance on how to figure if it's a piston(s) dragging or maybe crank bearings?? Or could it be a trans issue? Should I have a shop separate the trans and to make sure thats not the issue or is it more likely I'm looking at a rebuild? I'm sure I'm not the first person to be at this fork in the road - abandon ship or keep spending money...The truck is a pretty clean and rust free so I'm tempted to keep going.