Replacing head gaskets, what else?

RSchanz

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Does the new version work without modifications? I've been thinking about picking one up myself.

No modifications necessary.

Bart - To answer the questions, the test was completed with all GP's out, battery charger on and 8 cycles. Sometimes I wouldn't stop it fast enough and a 9th would start to sneak on but more or less 8 strokes. I think the diesel being in the cylinder is the only outlier. To get the diesel out I'm assuming I just need to cycle the engine a handful of times with no GP's in and the tester off? If I let it sit will it just drain on it's own?
 

RSchanz

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I'm having a really hard time finding information on how to do a leak down test online. Can anyone point me in the right direction or advise on how to do so?

Thanks
 

gnathv

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Cylinder Leak Testing
The ALLDATA Tech-Assist Team
If you have done a cranking compression test and have identified one or more cylinders that are much lower than the rest, you can do another test to find out the cause. It’s called a cylinder leak-down test. A leak-down test can tell you if the loss of compression is due to things like worn rings, burned or stuck open valves (intake or exhaust) or a leaking head gasket. The beauty of the leak down test is, you can test only low cylinders, or you can test all the cylinders to determine overall engine condition. In this article, we’ll focus on how to test only the cylinders that had low compression readings.
The best leak-down tester is the twin-gauge type. You read inlet shop air pressure on one gauge and read the percentage of cylinder leakage on the other.
Leak-down test gauges are not all created equal and my not read the same. It’s not critical whose gauge is correct. It’s more important that your gauge and the inlet shop air pressure remains consistent.
The Test
Leave all the spark plugs in except for the cylinder you’re testing. You’ll need a breaker bar or long- handle ratchet and socket to turn the crank nut.
1. Warm up the engine, so the rings have a chance to seal.
2. Pull the spark plug out of the cylinder you want to test.
3. Turn the engine over by hand until the piston in that cylinder is at top dead center (TDC).
NOTE: Often, when air pressure applied to the cylinder, the engine will turn over. Try to have the piston as close to TDC as you can so the crank, rod, and piston are as vertical as possible. Leaving the other spark plugs in the engine will help provide some resistance to turning.
WARNING: Remove the breaker bar and socket from the crank nut before putting air to the cylinder. If the cylinder you’re testing is not perfectly on TDC, the engine will turn over quickly and the breaker bar can strike you or damage under hood components.
4. Install the gauge’s air-fitting adapter into the spark plug hole and the shop air pressure to the inlet side of the gauge. Remember to double-check that your gauge reads “zero” before you start.
NOTE: When you adjust the regulator to “zero” the leak-down gauge, the shop air pressure gauge will read current shop pressure. Shop pressure can be anywhere between 60-100 psi but it needs to remain constant and steady.
5. Record your leak-down percentage for the cylinder you’re testing. Test any remaining low cylinders using the same method.

Results
For normally aspirated engines,
it’s not a reason for condemning the engine – but be more concerned about where the leakage
is occurring. And at 30 percent, there are some major problems and an overhaul is likely.
No engine will have perfect sealing with 0 percent loss.
percent loss indicates the engine in great condition. If an engine reads between 15-20 percent,
If you are testing all the cylinders, the percent of leakage should also be consistent across the
cylinders. Any great differences indicate a problem in that cylinder.
a variation of 4 to 5 percent is acceptable.
Leaks
When comparing cylinders,
Besides the occasional head gasket leak, there are three major leak paths where cylinder pressure can escape:
1) The rings
2) The intake valve
3) The exhaust valve
If you can hear a hissing sound coming from the valve cover breather hole or from the dipstick tube, then the air is escaping past the rings. If you hear that same hissing sound at the throttle blades and, then the pressure is leaking past the intake valve. If the air is escaping past the exhaust valve, you will probably be able to hear the air even as far back as the tailpipe.
Let’s say your engine measures 30 percent or more loss for each cylinder, and it’s all running past the rings. This is a good indication that your engine is tired and needs rebuilding. But if the leakage number is under 20 percent and most of it is past the rings, then a rebuild is not going to be worth much in terms of power gain. The point is that even cylinders with 20 percent leakdown do not represent a major power loss.
The area where leakage presents the most concern is the intake valve. If you detect a significant amount of air escaping past the intake valve during the leakdown test, try tapping on the intake valve with a plastic mallet to see if this will reduce the leakage. If the leak persists and is well into the 20 percent zone, it might be worth the time to yank the head and repair the problem.
Conclusions:
The leakdown tester is a great diagnostic tool to identify real cylinder pressure difficulties. But don’t be alarmed if you get 15 to 18 percent leakdown on all cylinders. If the cylinders perform within a couple of percentage points of each other, look elsewhere for any perceived problems.
5 to 10


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RSchanz

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Thanks for sharing. I see this is for gassers and I'm assuming the process must be exactly the same. Where do I turn our engines over manually?
 

gnathv

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Use a socket on crankshaft bolt in the middle of the harmonic balancer.
 

gnathv

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This is from FTE.

The timing mark is found on a little plate that is on the front of the engine on the passenger side. The plate is mounted so it is very close to the main pulley on the lower front of the engine which is mounted on the vibration damper. On the side of the vibration damper, is a line, which when lined up with the line marked (O) on the plate, tells you that the #1 piston is at TDC(top dead center) You can see the line on the damper, and it points to the line on the plate with the (barely visible)O mark on it.You'll have to find a way to turn your engine over by hand. Make sure you remove the power wire to the injection pump(so the engine won't start)and then rotate the engine until you can line up the marks.

The engine rotates in a clockwise direction as seen from the front of the truck, and for every 1/4 turn of the engine(crank) each next piston will arrive at TDC. So, When the line on the vibration damper is at the 2 oclock position, cylinders 2 and 5 will be at TDC. When the mark is at the 5 oclock position, cylinders 7 and 6 will be at TDC, 8 oclock has cylinders 3 and 8 at TDC, and back to 11oclock, 1 and 4 will be at TDC.

Cylinder numbers are assigned 1,3,5,7 on the left (passenger USA) bank from front of truck to back, and 2,4,6,8 on the driver's side (USA), front to back. Firing order is 1,2,7,3,4,5,6,8.
 

RSchanz

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The compression saga continues but I think the bottom line is that whether it's the gauge, or whatever else the numbers are good. I ran 8 strokes again, made sure the IP was not plugged in and I did each cylinder twice in a row to check consistency. All cylinders started at about 150 and increased about 100PSI per stroke until around the 5th stroke when it began to increase marginally. First numbers seem low so I'm lead to believe that the rings may be worn? Another question, I don't know if I can stand to do another round of this but, is 8 strokes too many? I see some people doing 6 and some people doing 8. It looked like this might change my numbers by 20-40 PSI when trying to watch the gauge from the cab.

Pass side front to back:
1:150/440
3:150/430
5:150/400
7:150/450

Drivers side front to back:
2:150/430
4:150/420
6:150/400
8:150/470

Last Test:
Pass side front to back:
1:440
3:485
5:400
7:460

Drivers side front to back:
2:400
4:410
6:410
8:435
 

IDIBRONCO

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It always takes a few compression strokes to build up the highest compression numbers during a test. I don't think that there's such a thing as to many strokes unless you drain the batteries or burn up the starter. With those numbers, I wouldn't worry one bit about the condition of the bottom end of your engine.
 

RSchanz

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It always takes a few compression strokes to build up the highest compression numbers during a test. I don't think that there's such a thing as to many strokes unless you drain the batteries or burn up the starter. With those numbers, I wouldn't worry one bit about the condition of the bottom end of your engine.

Thats what I'm thinking. Rear glow plug on the pass side didn't slide in so easily which was strange... maybe some kind of swelling in there? I took the drivers side valve cover off just to inspect and turned the engine on. Everything was nicely lubricated and running. Pass side seems like a pain in the ass but should I bother?

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Big Bart

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It is common for the compression to build on each stroke. But your compression over all looks good. It does not reflect a piston or ring issue. You will know more when the head is off and you can inspect the heads, cylinders, and pistons.
 

IDIBRONCO

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Pass side seems like a pain in the ass but should I bother?
Yes you should. Those are the 6.9 style of rocker arms. The aluminum pieces that the rockers pivot on are know to break. You can't buy replacements for those and they should all be replaced with the 7.3 style rockers when you do the head gaskets even if they aren't broken. If one is cracked, you may not be able to tell, but if one is broken, you'll be able to see it. Removing the fuel filter makes it possible to get the passenger's side valve cover off. It's still tight, but that's all you have to remove to get the cover off.
 

RSchanz

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Pass side is definitely more time consuming but removed it and everything looked fine.
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I found one of those little tabs that are on the gasket in there and it wasn't from the current gasket. Obviously a sign that someone has removed the valve covers and replaced the gaskets at some point.

Question about TDC for leak down test. I found this:

"The timing mark is found on a little plate that is on the front of the engine on the passenger side. The plate is mounted so it is very close to the main pulley on the lower front of the engine which is mounted on the vibration damper. On the side of the vibration damper, is a line, which when lined up with the line marked (O) on the plate, tells you that the #1 piston is at TDC(top dead center) You can see the line on the damper, and it points to the line on the plate with the (barely visible)O mark on it.You'lle to find a way to turn your engine over by hand. Make sure you remove the power wire to the injection pump(so the engine won't start)and then rotate the engine until you can line up the marks.

The engine rotates in a clockwise direction as seen from the front of the truck, and for every 1/4 turn of the engine(crank) each next piston will arrive at TDC. So, When the line on the vibration damper is at the 2 oclock position, cylinders 2 and 5 will be at TDC. When the mark is at the 5 oclock position, cylinders 7 and 6 will be at TDC, 8 oclock has cylinders 3 and 8 at TDC, and back to 11oclock, 1 and 4 will be at TDC."

Am I understanding correctly that the only or best way to rotate the engine while it's in the truck is to just turn the key?
 

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