Propane injection how to?

[IHcornbinder]

Any time you place fuel in a high compression engine before it reaches TDC you run the risk of detonation. By feeding the engine with the incoming air you have no control over when it will ignite, you are simply hoping it won’t go off until the fuel injector does. When you get the engine working hard and hot, the fuel is going to burn before the piston breaks over the top. When you try to compress an explosion, carnage results.

 

[IHcornbinder]

Somthing as simple as a peice of hot carbon left in the combustion chamber can cause massive dammage when it ignites the propane.

 

[bagpiperjosh]

Somthing as simple as a peice of hot carbon left in the combustion chamber can cause massive dammage when it ignites the propane.

out of all the people i have read that did it, i have not heard of a single issue like that.. i dont doubt it happens.. maybe alot more often with a turbo. i would think that an NA setup would be much less likely for that to happen, no?

 

[IHcornbinder]

definatly less compression so i would think so. Dont get me wrong a turbo shortens an engines life too. If i was choosing i would go for more air over more fuel, but I'm not sure of the cost differnece between adding a turbo vs propane.

 

[idiabuse]

not much carbon when there is only .040 quench at top dead center, diesels are always tight at top dead center.
This is why always keep an airfilter on your engine. the smallest piece of metal will tear up the cylinder.

Propane? I eventually will get a kit that has all the saftey features. I already have the hobbs switch mounted.


Javier

 

[89greendiesel]

definatly less compression so i would think so. Dont get me wrong a turbo shortens an engines life too. If i was choosing i would go for more air over more fuel, but I'm not sure of the cost differnece between adding a turbo vs propane.

you have to consider all factors, not just that propane is explosive.

To be a devil's advocate to your BTDC ignition, with which i do not disagree, i would mention that propane will only decrease the temp of the intake charge. I don't recall the autoignition temp of propane/air, but it has to be less than that of diesel because it wouldn't work if it did. At least it seems that way.

i guess i am just thinking outloud here.

this is coming from a guy who just bought a turbo for his NA truck and has no plans on propane injection unless it is needed. I didn't really need a turbo if i had a properly running NA truck, but it is time for injectors, IP, and return lines so i decided to buy a turbo and a hot moose which will be ordered soon enough.

thought?

 

[turbo elk]

It would be interesting to have the question answered by some one that knows for sure when the propane ignition happens..
I wouldn't mind having a propane injection system if it was easy, added more power, gave more fuel economy and was safe.
Tho I have heard that diesel alone burned like 70 some %...but with even a small percent propane added it will burn something like 90 some percent.
All said don't quote me on this being 100% ... accurate.

 

[IHcornbinder]

Yes, very interesting. Many of the problems with the method of injection have come to light with the numerous CNG kits that are available now. It has been argued in many forums, (i belive there are a couple of threads here too). I have no doubt that someone that knows their truck as well as most idi owners do would have any problem feeding it a little propane. However that being said, what most people are looking for is a system they bolt up, flip a switch, and have stroker like power out of a tired, wore out and in need of repair IDI. With the lack of electronics to aid the operator I dont think this is achievable or a good option for the everyday guy. Fix whats broke first, then if you still dont have the desired power, do what you want assuming the internals will take it.

 

[IHcornbinder]

Good ol google:

Fuel or Chemical Autoignition Temperature
(oC) (oF)
Acetaldehyde 175 347
Acetone 465 869
Acetylene 305 581
Anthracite - glow point 600 1112
Benzene 560 1040
Bituminous coal - glow point 454 850
Butane 405 761
Carbon 700 1292
Carbon bisulfide 149 300
Carbon disulfide 90 194
Carbon monoxide 609 1128
Charcoal 349 660
Coal-tar oil 580 1076
Coke 700 1292
Cyclohexane 245 473
Diethyl ether 160 320
Diesel, Jet A-1 210 410
Ethane 515 959
Ethylene 490 914
Ethyl Alcohol, Ethanol 365 689
Fuel Oil No.1 210 410
Fuel Oil No.2 256 494
Fuel Oil No.4 262 505
Heavy hydrocarbons 750 1382
Hydrogen 500 932
Gas oil 336 637
Gasoline, Petrol 280 536
Gun Cotton 221 430
Kerosene 295 563
Isobutane 462 864
Isobutene 465 869
Isooctane 447 837
Isopentane 420 788
Isopropyl Alcohol 399 750
Light gas 600 1112
Light hydrocarbons 650 1202
Lignite - glow point 526 979
Magnesium 473 883
Methane (Natural Gas) 580 1076
Methanol, Methyl Alcohol 470 878
Naphtha 550 1022
Neoheaxane 425 797
Neopentane 450 842
Nitro-glycerine 254 490
n-Butane 405 761
n-Heptane 215 419
n-Hexane 225 437
n-Octane 220 428
n-Pentane 260 500
n-Pentene 298 569
Oak Wood - dry 482 900
Paper 450 761
Peat 227 440
Petroleum 400 752
Pine Wood - dry 427 800
Phosphorus, amorphous 260 500
Phosphorus, transparent 49 120
Phosphorus, white 34 93
Production gas 750 1382
Propane 470 878
Propylene 458 856
p-Xylene 530 986
Rifle Powder 288 550
Triethylborane -20 -4
Toluene 535 995
Semi anthracite coal 400 752
Semi bituminous coal - glow point 527 980
Silane < 21 < 70
Styrene 490 914
Sulphur 243 470
Wood 300 572
Xylene 463 867

 

[IHcornbinder]

So, its higher than, deisel but lower than methane. So i would fall back to the same problem that CNG has.

 

[idiabuse]

Hey what is wrong with a little worn the hell out 6.9 with a turbo and propane and hopefuly some nitrous that decides to runaway eating its own oil? Cmon that would be a fun video to watch!


Javier

 

[idiabuse]

Good ol google:

Fuel or Chemical Autoignition Temperature
(oC) (oF)
Acetaldehyde 175 347
Acetone 465 869
Acetylene 305 581
Anthracite - glow point 600 1112
Benzene 560 1040
Bituminous coal - glow point 454 850
Butane 405 761
Carbon 700 1292
Carbon bisulfide 149 300
Carbon disulfide 90 194
Carbon monoxide 609 1128
Charcoal 349 660
Coal-tar oil 580 1076
Coke 700 1292
Cyclohexane 245 473
Diethyl ether 160 320
Diesel, Jet A-1 210 410
Ethane 515 959
Ethylene 490 914
Ethyl Alcohol, Ethanol 365 689
Fuel Oil No.1 210 410
Fuel Oil No.2 256 494
Fuel Oil No.4 262 505
Heavy hydrocarbons 750 1382
Hydrogen 500 932
Gas oil 336 637
Gasoline, Petrol 280 536
Gun Cotton 221 430
Kerosene 295 563
Isobutane 462 864
Isobutene 465 869
Isooctane 447 837
Isopentane 420 788
Isopropyl Alcohol 399 750
Light gas 600 1112
Light hydrocarbons 650 1202
Lignite - glow point 526 979
Magnesium 473 883
Methane (Natural Gas) 580 1076
Methanol, Methyl Alcohol 470 878
Naphtha 550 1022
Neoheaxane 425 797
Neopentane 450 842
Nitro-glycerine 254 490
n-Butane 405 761
n-Heptane 215 419
n-Hexane 225 437
n-Octane 220 428
n-Pentane 260 500
n-Pentene 298 569
Oak Wood - dry 482 900
Paper 450 761
Peat 227 440
Petroleum 400 752
Pine Wood - dry 427 800
Phosphorus, amorphous 260 500
Phosphorus, transparent 49 120
Phosphorus, white 34 93
Production gas 750 1382
Propane 470 878
Propylene 458 856
p-Xylene 530 986
Rifle Powder 288 550
Triethylborane -20 -4
Toluene 535 995
Semi anthracite coal 400 752
Semi bituminous coal - glow point 527 980
Silane < 21 < 70
Styrene 490 914
Sulphur 243 470
Wood 300 572
Xylene 463 867

No wonder why used motor oil and regular unleaded work so good in a IDI...



Javier

 

[IHcornbinder]

I would favorite that video for sure..... Better make sure they are wearing their brown pants before they crank that up. And you forgot to mention the water/methanol injection

 

[cr430c]

www.mrsharkey.com/lpg5
This is a good site to look up all the stuff. The last chart shows the temp at which propane ignites. If you look through the first couple pages of the article it explains how it works and how not to blow up either yourself or your power plant.
I just searched online for things. I bought most of my stuff on eBay. I am yet to install it.
Really just look up what is on the list from your first article. Should find it all pretty easily. I think I paid like 185 for all the important parts minus hose or a tank.

 

[bagpiperjosh]

www.mrsharkey.com/lpg5
This is a good site to look up all the stuff. The last chart shows the temp at which propane ignites. If you look through the first couple pages of the article it explains how it works and how not to blow up either yourself or your power plant.
I just searched online for things. I bought most of my stuff on eBay. I am yet to install it.
Really just look up what is on the list from your first article. Should find it all pretty easily. I think I paid like 185 for all the important parts minus hose or a tank.

.
What are your list of parts? The biggest thing i had trouble finding is the switch he put next to the throttle to engage the system under acceleration