Oil Level

[OLDBULL8]

More pan pics. If you need more measurements, let me know, it's damn hard for me to do, still have to get around with a walker on this broken leg, that won't heal. Maybe it will now, blood vein to bottom of leg was 100% blocked, had it opened up last Monday. See next post.

1st---Water level with one gallon to bottom of slope.
2nd ---Interior of pan.
3rd--- Depth of crank counterbalance from pan rail. 3-1/2"
4th--- Side view of pan.
5th--- You know what this is.
6th--- Oil pickup from pan rail. 11" May be only 10-1/2' had to have rule at an angle.
7th--- Depth from pan rail to top of one gallon of water. 7"

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Wow, real sorry to hear about your leg injury - I remember when you broke it, but didn't know it's still not healed up. That's some scary stuff there, and I find it somewhat worrysome it took the docs that long to figure out the blocked vein... Regardless, I sincerely hope now that she's flowing again you will get better quick.

Thanks for the pics and measurements, they help a great deal. So if a gallon of fluid takes up 4" height in the pan sump, that's roughly a quart per inch. How much do the oil filter and cooler hold, about 2qts with the PSD filter? So we have (11qts total) - (2.5qts for circulation volume) - (2qts for filter and cooler) - (2qts so light comes on when dipstic says 2qts low) = (4.5 qts left in the pan). So right around where OldBull measured the gallon, maybe a tad higher. Additionally, due to the shape of the oil pickup tube drilling in front of #4 main bearing is a big no-no. Everywhere aft of it is a fair game tho. It appears that #4 main cap is right next to the dipstick. Thus anywhere on the pan wall behind the dipstick, and about 7" below the pan rails, is where the sensor should be placed.

Warden, I did what you suggested - starting with dead cold engine oil level at 1/16" below full mark, after she dropped off high idle and cold advance the oil level was 1-1/4" below where I measured it first. Since we know that 1/2" is 1qt then 1-1/4" would mean 2.5qts circulating thru the engine. So it appears we were underestimating the oil pump. But now we have an idea what she's capable of.

Someone please check my math above, namely the part about the oil cooler and filter - I assigned them 2qts based on size of PSD filter, but maybe I'm off by half a quart or so...

 

[OLDBULL8]

With 4 Qts shown in the sump, you would have room for about 5 more Qts to fill the sump to the top of the slope. So basically you have 8-1/2 to 9 Qts in the sump. On the flat part of the pan I doubt there is any oil there, as the crank CB's is only a 1/2" clearance there. So the sensor should be right at the water level.

Like LCAM says:

Thus anywhere on the pan wall behind the dipstick, and about 7" below the pan rails, is where the sensor should be placed.

You could/would loose about 5 Qts. before the alarm. Makes no difference how much oil is in the cooler, oil gallies or filter, your only going to have 4 more Qts. to pump. Possible the oil pressure would drop, as you may be pumping some air by then. The oil pickup is about 1/2" off the bottom of the pan.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Bump: guess no one except LCAM is interested after all the time to get and post what was asked for.

 

[racer30]

Nice Work OldBull8 That's some good info you have there.. I will be using some of it to help my oil dipstick adjustments. Using the stock ford dipstick in the front location will make it fun to reach through the rear access on the MH. The front of the engine will sit about 3.5 feet in from the access door so climbing in the rear of the engine compartment to reach it will be a problem. I have been looking for a van dipstick but haven't found one yet.. All I need now is Injectors and glow plugs and a temporary engine mount to mount it to a pallet for testing before ripping the 8.2 out. Keep doing your therapy on that leg so you can get out this summer and enjoy the weather..

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Bump: guess no one except LCAM is interested after all the time to get and post what was asked for.

Sorry about that, I was sure I replied, but guess I closed the window before I hit "submit reply" - monkey brain strikes again apparently. So here I go again:

With 4 Qts shown in the sump, you would have room for about 5 more Qts to fill the sump to the top of the slope. So basically you have 8-1/2 to 9 Qts in the sump. On the flat part of the pan I doubt there is any oil there, as the crank CB's is only a 1/2" clearance there. So the sensor should be right at the water level.

Yes, about 9 qts in pan after sitting overnight is about what I figured as well. The reason I mentioned filter and cooler capacity is because they don't drain overnight (well at least the filter doesn't), so whatever oil volume they contain should be subtracted from the total system capacity since we only care for what's in the pan. Which is what you did as well actually. Great minds think alike and all that

You could/would loose about 5 Qts. before the alarm. Makes no difference how much oil is in the cooler, oil gallies or filter, your only going to have 4 more Qts. to pump. Possible the oil pressure would drop, as you may be pumping some air by then. The oil pickup is about 1/2" off the bottom of the pan.

I believe you are partially mistaken here:

a) Say you had a small leak you didn't know of, then you parked your truck for a few weeks thus allowing it to slowly drain on the ground. When you get in the truck and turn ignition on, if the low oil level light comes on instantly before you fire up the engine then yes, you are indeed about 5qts low.

b) On the other hand if the light comes on while you're driving, this means you're only about 2.5qts low - yes the content of the pan is still 5qts low like in the previous example, however half of that is actually used up to fill the engine oil galleys, thus to drop down to the level that triggers the sensor and light you only needed to lose 2.5qts. If then you shut the engine off but left the ignition on for whatever reason, your would see the oil light go dark again because the 2.5qts circulating in the system up to this point are now draining back into the pan, bringing its level up to 6.5qts and thus well above the sensor trigger level. Which also means that next time you go to start the truck the light will be off while the glowplugs are doing their thing, but the moment the engine fires up and the oil pump sucks up its 2.5qts circulation volume the light will come right on again.

I hope I'm explaining this in an understandable manner, it's not really one of my stronger skills.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Racer30, what motorhome do you have? Almost sounds like a pusher driveline configuration... I take it that the 8.2 you're evicting from it is a Detroit? Never had to work on one of those, but I've been told many times the only good thing about them is they are quite decent in the fuel economy department. I have a 5.9 Fummins in my MDT, would love to have it displaced by a 8.3 Fummins (and subsequently dropped in my 1-ton to replace the IDI), but it doesn't look like it's in the cards for this year either... With a front-sump pan, I'd imagine the IDI oil pickup just turns and drops straight down when it exits the oil pump? If so by looking at OldBull's pics it seems to me you should be able to put an oil sensor either on the side of the pan towards the front corner of it, or even straight into the front wall of the pan but slightly offset to the side so it misses the pickup tube.

And +1 on the therapy advice, that can work dang near miracles!

 

[jaluhn83]

OB, thanks for the info! Much appreciated even if I did a **** more job of making that known.

On a sidenote, there's some interesting similes on here now....

 

[antiqueford]

Bump: guess no one except LCAM is interested after all the time to get and post what was asked for.

I appreciate the effort man, now I just gotta take a trip to the scrapyard.... And find a few days to allow for the truck to be down if I screw something up and end up needing a new pan...

 

[OLDBULL8]

LCAM said this.

Sorry about that, I was sure I replied, but guess I closed the window before I hit "submit reply" - monkey brain strikes again apparently. So here I go again:

You did reply.

Yes, about 9 qts in pan after sitting overnight is about what I figured as well. The reason I mentioned filter and cooler capacity is because they don't drain overnight (well at least the filter doesn't), so whatever oil volume they contain should be subtracted from the total system capacity since we only care for what's in the pan. Which is what you did as well actually. Great minds think alike and all that

Thanks for that last sentence.

The oil pump on these IDI's, pump a hugh amount of volumn, the pickup tube is about 3/4" ID. The oil gallies are only 3/8" ID, my guess is the whole upper oil system only would hold less than a Qt.,

 

[LCAM-01XA]

The oil pump on these IDI's, pump a hugh amount of volumn, the pickup tube is about 3/4" ID. The oil gallies are only 3/8" ID, my guess is the whole upper oil system only would hold less than a Qt.,

Ah, thanks for that oil flow diagram, it's good info to have. The reason I say the oil system hold 2.5 quarts in circulation is that I measured my oil level after sitting overnight, then fired up truck, and measured it again and it was 2.5 qts lower than before. Well one side (facing towards the crank) was reading absurdly high but that's cause of oil from the head draining on it, the side facing the oil pan wall was actually readable and that's what I used to judge oil level.

 

[jaluhn83]

So I got the thing setup finally and it looks like it should all work but it looks like when I brazed the fittings on I managed to crack the pan..... and my attempts to repair the crack just made things worse. Oops!

So um anyone have a spare oil pan laying around?

Also, are the Dorman aftermarket pans any good? Got some on e-bay for $125 or so which isn't too much more than a used one once you figure shipping or labor to go pull one at the junkyard.....