mohavewolfpup
Diesel Wolf Puppy
Just one i think ? Think a loop comes off it and goes to cap 1 on the other side. The splice is injector cap 2>"splice">fuel filter header>injector cap 1
New addition to the stable
- Thread starter mohavewolfpup
- Start date
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
From the factory there are two hoses connected to cap #1, one leading to the next injector on the same side (#3) and one hooked up to the filter. The crossover is on the rear of the engine, between #7 and #8. However cause the turbo sits right there it's possible the crossover got moved to the front between #1 and #2 taking up the port initially used by the filter hose, so the T-ee was added for the filter hose to connect to.
mohavewolfpup
Diesel Wolf Puppy
I'll take a closer look at the injectors later. Currently I have this issue.
Yanked the old battery cable to install one from lmc, which sent a wells cable. Definitely thicker gauge.
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/840/img2013051400485.jpg
New cable end
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4917/img2013051400484.jpg
Old cable end
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6854/img2013051400483.jpg
These are the new and old glow plug solenoid cable connections. Does it matter I only have a thicker cable going to the solenoid now? Second one went to the starter solenoid?
Since the new cable is thicker also, what does anyone do for routing in front of the rqdiator ? Old clips to mount it are too small
Edit: would this be better? Seems to possibly have all I need?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Positive-Ba...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item257d6fd4d5
Thanks!
Yanked the old battery cable to install one from lmc, which sent a wells cable. Definitely thicker gauge.
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/840/img2013051400485.jpg
New cable end
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4917/img2013051400484.jpg
Old cable end
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6854/img2013051400483.jpg
These are the new and old glow plug solenoid cable connections. Does it matter I only have a thicker cable going to the solenoid now? Second one went to the starter solenoid?
Since the new cable is thicker also, what does anyone do for routing in front of the rqdiator ? Old clips to mount it are too small
Edit: would this be better? Seems to possibly have all I need?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Positive-Ba...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item257d6fd4d5
Thanks!
Last edited:
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Just so you know the Econoline cable runs along the firewall, not the rad support. Not sure if that will make a difference or not.
As for your first question, if your new cable tail only reaches the GPR, then the truck won't have any electric power. If you connect it to the starter relay only, then GPR will not have power. My suggestion would be to leave it as is right now, then add a 2nd cable between the starter relay and the bolt that tightens the cable end on the battery terminal. You will just need a short piece of cable with eyelets on both ends, your local parts store will have something suitable for just a few bucks. Actually if the one they have is fatter than the tail of the LMC cable (say the LMC tail is 4 gauge, and parts store has 2 gauge), then you can move the LMC end to the starter relay instead, and put new cable on the GPR. Point is to give the GPR the larger of the two cables available, cause truck itself doesn't pull much juice, but the plugs can get rather power-hungry at startup.
As for attaching the LMC cable to your rad support, do the clips just clamp it down into a groove stamped into the top of the rad support? If so just spread/bend them up slightly.
As for your first question, if your new cable tail only reaches the GPR, then the truck won't have any electric power. If you connect it to the starter relay only, then GPR will not have power. My suggestion would be to leave it as is right now, then add a 2nd cable between the starter relay and the bolt that tightens the cable end on the battery terminal. You will just need a short piece of cable with eyelets on both ends, your local parts store will have something suitable for just a few bucks. Actually if the one they have is fatter than the tail of the LMC cable (say the LMC tail is 4 gauge, and parts store has 2 gauge), then you can move the LMC end to the starter relay instead, and put new cable on the GPR. Point is to give the GPR the larger of the two cables available, cause truck itself doesn't pull much juice, but the plugs can get rather power-hungry at startup.
As for attaching the LMC cable to your rad support, do the clips just clamp it down into a groove stamped into the top of the rad support? If so just spread/bend them up slightly.
mohavewolfpup
Diesel Wolf Puppy
Lowest I found was 4 gauge in the battery section. Seems passable? Picked up some new ground cables also. Hope they fit!
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
4 gauge is fine, these trucks hardly use any juice once fired up, especially those with stick shifts or C6 slushboxes. And you saw how puny the factory wiring is anyways. I have 4 gauge cables feeding both the glow plugs and the rest of the truck, no problems whatsoever. So yeah, grab that 4 gauge and run it.
mohavewolfpup
Diesel Wolf Puppy
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Taking a break currently, tools and parts are flying everywhere because I can't find where the damn nut for the smaller wire went on the started. Fell off into nothing.
I don't see how the 4 gauge will work from the battery terminal to the relay, one is run to a second relay. Won't fit....
This battery cable swap is a nightmare. Too damn thick, just stuffed it between the radiator and grille area. Fits right in, no bs....
I should have looked first at uhaul... If I'm struggling with this gauge of wire, I don't want ton know what the f... People do with higher gauges....
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
OK, a few things here:
1) factory routing is poorly executed and overall dumb in design. But it saves lotsa money when you build gazillion trucks. You're only building one truck tho. So ignore the factory setup, heck forget it ever existed even.
2) connect the tail of the LMC cable to either your starter relay or the glowplugs relay, it doesn't matter which. Leave the other relay without power for the time being.
3) get your short piece of 4-gauge cable and connect one end to the relay you left currently "powerless" in step #2 above. The other end of the cable you attach to the battery terminal in such a manner:
The idea is to provide each relay with its own 4-gauge cable feeding it power directly from the battery. None of that cheap daisy-chain BS the factory did. You have to remember that when it comes to power transmission generally speaking "made by Ford" = "potential BBQ". Especially when it comes to '80s vehicles. Which is why in that picture there are so many cables on one single battery terminal - it's a mother to undo when the need for it arises, but at least I can't overload none of my factory circuits. I added extra grounds the same way as well:
Finally, do not complain about the thickness of the cables. Heavy gauge cable is what you want on an IDI, the starter can pull some ridiculous amperage and anything less becomes a fire hazard. See that other real fat cable on my positive terminal (with the very thick copper ring end)? That goes to the starter as well, I have two runs of 2/0 cable feeding it - it made no sense to me running 2/0 between the batteries and then again 2/0 down to the starter. So now each battery effectively has a full 2/0 run from its terminal down to the starter. Even better would be to run the second 2/0 cable from the starter all the way over to the driver side battery, but I didn't have enough cable length for that...
1) factory routing is poorly executed and overall dumb in design. But it saves lotsa money when you build gazillion trucks. You're only building one truck tho. So ignore the factory setup, heck forget it ever existed even.
2) connect the tail of the LMC cable to either your starter relay or the glowplugs relay, it doesn't matter which. Leave the other relay without power for the time being.
3) get your short piece of 4-gauge cable and connect one end to the relay you left currently "powerless" in step #2 above. The other end of the cable you attach to the battery terminal in such a manner:
You must be registered for see images attach
The idea is to provide each relay with its own 4-gauge cable feeding it power directly from the battery. None of that cheap daisy-chain BS the factory did. You have to remember that when it comes to power transmission generally speaking "made by Ford" = "potential BBQ". Especially when it comes to '80s vehicles. Which is why in that picture there are so many cables on one single battery terminal - it's a mother to undo when the need for it arises, but at least I can't overload none of my factory circuits. I added extra grounds the same way as well:
You must be registered for see images attach
Finally, do not complain about the thickness of the cables. Heavy gauge cable is what you want on an IDI, the starter can pull some ridiculous amperage and anything less becomes a fire hazard. See that other real fat cable on my positive terminal (with the very thick copper ring end)? That goes to the starter as well, I have two runs of 2/0 cable feeding it - it made no sense to me running 2/0 between the batteries and then again 2/0 down to the starter. So now each battery effectively has a full 2/0 run from its terminal down to the starter. Even better would be to run the second 2/0 cable from the starter all the way over to the driver side battery, but I didn't have enough cable length for that...
mohavewolfpup
Diesel Wolf Puppy
So if I do as you say, putting negative on the battery gets it firing up without a key. ***?
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7188/img2013051700490.jpg
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9384/img2013051700491.jpg
Thick wire is run to the relay. Starts it running suddenly, so I yanked negative quickly.
I'm still rethinking this swap. What a ******** nightmare
Why is this so difficult? Should I run it to the glow plug relay as it was factory? Or is that going to **** it up? ... Factory was battery to relay, glow plug relay to fender relay...
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7188/img2013051700490.jpg
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9384/img2013051700491.jpg
Thick wire is run to the relay. Starts it running suddenly, so I yanked negative quickly.
I'm still rethinking this swap. What a ******** nightmare
Why is this so difficult? Should I run it to the glow plug relay as it was factory? Or is that going to **** it up? ... Factory was battery to relay, glow plug relay to fender relay...
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Wait, why do you have two black cables on that positive terminal? Should only have one. The only reason truck will crank instantly is if you connected new cable to wrong side of the relay, thus effectively bypassing it. OK, let's do this slightly differently:
1) disconnect red LMC cable from glowplugs relay.
2) connect one black cable between glowplugs relay and battery positive terminal.
3) connect red LMC cable to one side of starter relay. Use the side that has all the other wires attached to it.
4) connect other side of starter relay to the solenoid down on the starter. There should be only 1 wire on this side of the relay, the one triggering said solenoid. No other wires, none whatsoever.
Under no circumstances should you have the starter solenoid trigger wire attached to a relay terminal where there is any other wire or cable. It should be alone on the terminal, always alone.
1) disconnect red LMC cable from glowplugs relay.
2) connect one black cable between glowplugs relay and battery positive terminal.
3) connect red LMC cable to one side of starter relay. Use the side that has all the other wires attached to it.
4) connect other side of starter relay to the solenoid down on the starter. There should be only 1 wire on this side of the relay, the one triggering said solenoid. No other wires, none whatsoever.
Under no circumstances should you have the starter solenoid trigger wire attached to a relay terminal where there is any other wire or cable. It should be alone on the terminal, always alone.
mohavewolfpup
Diesel Wolf Puppy
There is a second black cable (replaced) on a second relay/solenoid. That's what it is. The unplugged one I showed is what was making the engine crank. Putting negative on doesn't even turn in cab lights or my underhood light with the black one unplugged
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Alright, I bet I know what's going on - your starter solenoid trigger wire is put on the wrong side of the starter relay. Start down at the starter, follow the thin wire all the way up to the starter relay. See if there are any other wires attached to the same terminal - if they are remove them, leaving only the solenoid trigger wire on there. All these wires you just loosened, move them to the other side of the relay. Connect you positive battery cable there as well. By the way it doesn't matter which side of relay you choose for which connection, so if some of your wires come up short by all means switch them around. Personally I prefer using the "front" terminal (closer to the battery) for the solenoid trigger wire, and the "rear" one as the junction for all other wires.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Alternatively leave everything as is, and just swap positions for the wires I've circled in red:
Pretty sure that will fix it. Then connect your fat black cable back on right where you had it, together with the yellow and dark green wires.
What's the other fender relay for? Hydraulic pump?
You must be registered for see images
Pretty sure that will fix it. Then connect your fat black cable back on right where you had it, together with the yellow and dark green wires.
What's the other fender relay for? Hydraulic pump?
mohavewolfpup
Diesel Wolf Puppy
I followed your first advice and swapped everything, including the 4 gauge one onto one lug, and the starter wire onto the other one all by itself. I was so frazzled, took the photo wrong. The thin one running to the starter is underneath the yellow connector on the left (look for the heat shrink tubing. least I did one thing right on it) Truck got negative cables hooked up without trying to start itself or shoot sparks like a bad 4th of july creation... Hope I didn't toast any of my glow plug system, buzzer wasn't going off. I do hear the *click* of the wheel well relay... maybe i'm hyper paranoid at this point. The gear vendors and related stuff seems to come on sooner now when I turn the key before running. So frazzled, not sure if that is normal.
I suspect the second relay pictured is for the gear vendors and a few other things? not sure. One cable I suspect runs all the way to the back and might be for a trailer wiring connector? It's cut off and capped back there. Another mess i'll figure out later....
Thanks for your help. I'm holding off on the negative cables for a while, ugh. Can't even figure out where the left side one is (facing forward) looks to be behind a thick portion of the engine/frame I can't even see... not in the mood for that now!
Next I suspect is the fuel return system... found the carrier fuel pump modification, mighty tempting. My wiring skills aren't the best obviously (har har) so i'll probably end up doing heaven knows what...
I suspect the second relay pictured is for the gear vendors and a few other things? not sure. One cable I suspect runs all the way to the back and might be for a trailer wiring connector? It's cut off and capped back there. Another mess i'll figure out later....
Thanks for your help. I'm holding off on the negative cables for a while, ugh. Can't even figure out where the left side one is (facing forward) looks to be behind a thick portion of the engine/frame I can't even see... not in the mood for that now!
Next I suspect is the fuel return system... found the carrier fuel pump modification, mighty tempting. My wiring skills aren't the best obviously (har har) so i'll probably end up doing heaven knows what...
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
That tiny black thing is your starter solenoid trigger? Seems kinda small, at least compared to mine. Or am I looking at the wrong wire? Post a pic of the way you have it installed now.
And no, you didn't damage you glowplugs. When the starter accidentally cranked it was just the starter cause of the misplaced trigger for it - your ignition was never on so the glowplugs controller never powered up their own relay. Assuming plugs are not on a manual switch to begin with, in which case the only way to engage them is thru said switch. So you're fine, nothing to worry about there.
The GV stuff coming alive faster is direct result of your new cables. That's why I insisted that you connect the black 4gauge cables to the battery directly, instead of copying the factory daisy chain setup. Now everything that needs power can receive as much of it as it wants, no robbing one another off it. With the factory setup you had I bet the glowplugs were hogging power from the starter relay, and since starter relay also acts as a junction for all the truck's 12V needs everything else got affected as well. That's why you see so many cables on my positive terminal, so everything can pull what it needs when it needs it without affecting anything else.
The grounds, the passenger side cable is attached to block with the same bolt that holds the metal bracket for your positive cable. Or at least that's how it was from the factory - fairly easy to replace. Driver side negative cable looks like it's bolted to the block somewhere near the water pump neck for the lower radiator hose, power steering pump hides it quite well from above but IIRC it's easily visible from under the truck. If you don't wanna mess with them just buy two more of those black 4gauge cables and add them too the negative terminals (in the same manner as you did with the positives, using the pinch bolt) then run them to convenient places on top of the engine, for example the alternator's top bolt (use a longer bolt, attach cable on back side of alternator's ear with a nut after alternator has been tightened in place) and one of the A/C compressor's mounting bolts. Also I'd recommend if possible you get the new cables in red and swap them with the black ones you already have - personally I like red for positive and black for negative, it just makes things harder to screw up accidentally next time you have to work on them.
Your secondary relay on the fender is likely for charging a coach battery on a trailer or camper. Pretty good setup actually.
And no, you didn't damage you glowplugs. When the starter accidentally cranked it was just the starter cause of the misplaced trigger for it - your ignition was never on so the glowplugs controller never powered up their own relay. Assuming plugs are not on a manual switch to begin with, in which case the only way to engage them is thru said switch. So you're fine, nothing to worry about there.
The GV stuff coming alive faster is direct result of your new cables. That's why I insisted that you connect the black 4gauge cables to the battery directly, instead of copying the factory daisy chain setup. Now everything that needs power can receive as much of it as it wants, no robbing one another off it. With the factory setup you had I bet the glowplugs were hogging power from the starter relay, and since starter relay also acts as a junction for all the truck's 12V needs everything else got affected as well. That's why you see so many cables on my positive terminal, so everything can pull what it needs when it needs it without affecting anything else.
The grounds, the passenger side cable is attached to block with the same bolt that holds the metal bracket for your positive cable. Or at least that's how it was from the factory - fairly easy to replace. Driver side negative cable looks like it's bolted to the block somewhere near the water pump neck for the lower radiator hose, power steering pump hides it quite well from above but IIRC it's easily visible from under the truck. If you don't wanna mess with them just buy two more of those black 4gauge cables and add them too the negative terminals (in the same manner as you did with the positives, using the pinch bolt) then run them to convenient places on top of the engine, for example the alternator's top bolt (use a longer bolt, attach cable on back side of alternator's ear with a nut after alternator has been tightened in place) and one of the A/C compressor's mounting bolts. Also I'd recommend if possible you get the new cables in red and swap them with the black ones you already have - personally I like red for positive and black for negative, it just makes things harder to screw up accidentally next time you have to work on them.
Your secondary relay on the fender is likely for charging a coach battery on a trailer or camper. Pretty good setup actually.
