moose power?

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

Just because you dont have the knowledge or ability to build it, doesnt mean I dont

Now thats one classy way to put a real **** statement.

How many build threads have you posted to help people duplicate your results? I don't even see any sort of help in this thread for the OP. Just a blanket statement that could be considered simply bragging followed by more bragging with a smart assed attitude and a sugarcoated personal attack. Hey I won't sugar coat anything, don't come into a thread and post a short comment to a very technical issue. You can't just say "I run 20psi boost and never run over 1100*EGT". You're making this more difficult that pulling teeth, even now you still have not said what you've done to your engine to net those kinds of results. I have lots of experience with these engines and I have NEVER seen a stock configured 093 turbo system produce the kind of results you are talking about. My family currently owns 3 factory IDIT trucks, one with a modified turbo that has the same exhaust crossover and down pipe that yours has, and I'll tell you even with the stock turbo pump that truck will run over 1200* towing a single car trailer. I've worked on these trucks since I was 6 or 7 years old, so don't call me stupid. I've been trying to give the OP ides and answer his questions to the best of my ability, trying to ad as much information to the topic as I can.

 

[blown84]

You can open them up just a little and polishing that spout helps also. For every .001 opening is equal to .004 larger opening. Don't go over about .010 on a side tho, it will weaken it too much. Just don't try to do anything inside the precup, it needs to be rough for atomizing, breaks up the fuel into droplets. Takes alot of small grinding stones in a Dremel to do both heads. Also you should make some kind of a gage so each one is as close to each other. After opening the first one drive a small piece of wood in it, that makes like a collar on the stick for a depth/size gage.

Sorry about the HIjack. But this is possible on the 6.9, every little bit helps.

no hijack. this is the kinda info im lookin for. i had a mind to open the ports with a drill, makin them all the same size, then just polish em up.

Now thats one classy way to put a real **** statement.

guys, you are both smart and know your chit. dont make me have to ask you to not post on my thread cause yall are in a ****** match. one guys set up works one way, and does certain things, anothers does somethin else. end of story, let it go.

 

[429idi]

ok. maybe i should be more clear about what i want. first: to make a decent amount of power in a way that is uncommon. second: to make enough torque (im a torque freak. if i make only 200hp but have 5 to 600 lb-ft, id be more than happy) over a broad rpm range to make the guys with their new 6.7s, 6.4s, 6.6s and 6.9s wonder just what the hell im runnin. like i said, im all about torque. hp is only a measure of how quickly you can apply torque=accelleration. torque is what moves you, and your load down the road, at a constant pace. (im sure you all understand all this.)

NOW, am i off my rocker, in left feild, belong in a strait jacket, have no business around motors??? or maybe, just MAYBE, im i on to somethin?

*disclamer: SHOOT ME DOWN IF I AM WRONG. I WONT BE BUTT HURT.

Horsepower = (torquexrpm)/5252. Horsepower is a byproduct of torque, it's a calculation. If I remember right 1 horsepower is 33,000 lb/ft per minute.

can someone explain to me why this idea is getting shot down across the board? no one here has tried it but everyone "knows for a fact" its a terrible idea and wont work. it's different and may not deliver the wanted results, but whos to say it wont? and its not like he's just slapping a blower on a stock 6.9 and calling it good, he's asking for ideas. rough crowd in here.

I think one of the reasons the idea it is getting shot down is because blowers are so inefficient. They work good at low boost levels, but the more boost you run the more power they take to run. Also at higher boost levels they get more inefficient. An 8-71 blower, at 15lbs boost, it has a max efficiency of 57percent, which makes for some hot air. It will flow a lot of cfm, but not a lot of lbs/min, which is what makes power (the hotter the air, the less it weighs). Turbos take a lot less power to run, they are more efficient, and there are kits already available.

 

[OLDBULL8]

[no hijack. this is the kinda info im lookin for. i had a mind to open the ports with a drill, makin them all the same size, then just polish em up.
/QUOTE]

Don't drill them out, the spouts are oval shaped. The pistons have a (hot air ballon shape) indent between the relief for the valves, going to wide on the precup spout, that may defeat there purpose of directing the fuel, all happens in a micro second.

 

[blown84]

duely noted. that might be somethin i can kinda play with then.

 

[OLDBULL8]

A thought just came to mind, how are you going to run a blower in the rain?

 

[blown84]

heres an idea: would low pressure water mistin, post blower, help cool the intake charge?

 

[blown84]

A thought just came to mind, how are you going to run a blower in the rain?

read my last post. i do happen to know for a fact that, while not good for them by any means, an idi can readily gulp down excessive amounts of water and still run. and i also dont plan on stickin it out of the hood. seein how much they stick up with that one truck, an 1.5 or 2 inch body lift might be in order, and a cowl hood was already planned.

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

no hijack. this is the kinda info im lookin for. i had a mind to open the ports with a drill, makin them all the same size, then just polish em up.



guys, you are both smart and know your chit. dont make me have to ask you to not post on my thread cause yall are in a ****** match. one guys set up works one way, and does certain things, anothers does somethin else. end of story, let it go.

For the first one, I doubt a drill will get you very far with the precups, they are made of hardened material. Off hand I can't tell you for sure what it is, but I'm thinking its inconel. Not to mention the hole in them isn't exactly round, its more oval shaped and its made that way for a reason.

For the second one, I've had to talk on the phone for hours on end with new members trying to help them fix issues they had resulting from posts just like the one he started with. I see it more and more on here and its getting old. I personally know several members here and there are a few I'd give the shirt off my back to if I knew it would help them out. But everyone that knows me knows that I will help anyone if they are of deserving character. But I don't appreciate people who try to sugarcoat insults and thats exactly what he did within his last post. Have I done anything other than try to answer your questions and give you real insight into the issue at hand? All I do is try to make everything clear so that nothing is assumed causing you more confusion or heartache in the future.

 

[NMB2]

Now thats one classy way to put a real **** statement.

How many build threads have you posted to help people duplicate your results? I don't even see any sort of help in this thread for the OP. Just a blanket statement that could be considered simply bragging followed by more bragging with a smart assed attitude and a sugarcoated personal attack. Hey I won't sugar coat anything, don't come into a thread and post a short comment to a very technical issue. You can't just say "I run 20psi boost and never run over 1100*EGT". You're making this more difficult that pulling teeth, even now you still have not said what you've done to your engine to net those kinds of results. I have lots of experience with these engines and I have NEVER seen a stock configured 093 turbo system produce the kind of results you are talking about. My family currently owns 3 factory IDIT trucks, one with a modified turbo that has the same exhaust crossover and down pipe that yours has, and I'll tell you even with the stock turbo pump that truck will run over 1200* towing a single car trailer. I've worked on these trucks since I was 6 or 7 years old, so don't call me stupid. I've been trying to give the OP ides and answer his questions to the best of my ability, trying to ad as much information to the topic as I can.

check it out dude, I will take this into PM's so we don't cludder this mans thread, but I only replied to your adamant post, and you became very confrontational, and even had the nerve to pull out the "******** flag" and tell me how I need to post, if I want to post again.

I proved you wrong, no if, ands, or buts about it. I made no **** statements, and I was not confrontational, only informational. If someone wants to know what I have done to my engine... look at my signature.

IMO, I did help the OP, by letting him know that your post was misinformed.

 

[riotwarrior]

Well now, from what I can tell, Turbo or Mechanical aka roots or a centrifugal charger are all "FORCED INDUCTION" now what it comes down to is where, and when that forced induction occurs. For instance, the 8 71 is mechanical and builds boost no matter what load the engine sees, so does the centrifugal SC, again boost on demand.

Turbo builds boost by load, when the engine needs it boost is brought into the equation.

With a roots charger building boost immediately you can make more power at lower rpm than a turbo. On the other hand, it runs out of steam once the engine is revving and cannot provide enough boost to increase power, this is where the turbo would come into play so ultimately a nice mechanical setup and turbo would conceivably make the most power throughout the engine's entire RPM range.

As for burning valves, I doubt you'll do that but yes it could happen with sustained high boost and fuel with no regard for EGT. More than likely you would melt pistons though.

If you really want to "Be" different, try a centrifugal charger and turbo where the two work in harmony and deliver outstanding power throughout the engines RPM and load.

JM2CW

 

[icanfixall]

Ok... Let me add some thoughts here.... That supercharger was a nice "looking" setup but... Thats really all it was... It had a BDS blower on it... I live about 3 miles from BTS so... I printed out all I could on that engine and went asking their engineers some questions.... They had nothing to do with that build.... Yes.. It was their blower but they didn't help the guy in any way..... turns out the guy built his own intake that sits directly on the factory intake horn... Not a great idea either. It made very little boost too... Now take a top fuel engine... Those blowers are using an estimated 10% hp just to turn those air pumps... Thats around 800 hp just to turn the blower.... So I'm feeling safe in saying if thats the norm then we can expect to llose around 10% of our hp... So if we are able to make 300 hp we loose 30 hp... Right back where we started at... A turbo is almost free hp from the hot exhaust gas... Now add a 4 inch exhaust without a muffler and its dumping hot expanded air in a hurry. Any boost over 12 or 13 lbs is superheated to an estimated 300 degrees going directly into the engine.... Again... Not good so try to run an intercooler so the air being pumped into the intake is lower and denser.... I have plenty of porting pictures posted around here... All my ports were opened up and polished... why you ask... Well this isn't a gas engine... We don't have any fuel being blown into the engine thru the intake ports so nothing is forming fuel droplets on the polished intak ports... Make it slippery... things flow better that way... One of the most important places to clean up a port is the exhaust floor. There is a sharp curve that neds to be rounded amd smoothed out... Then the hot exhaust will climb out of the heads much faster. These engines have a terrible drivers side exhaust manifold log and the passenger side is completely differant... One flows up from the heads and the other flows down from the heads... The drivers side has a tight bend at the last cylinder... Not great for flow... I ported both of these logs just trying to reduce the ruff grabbing surfaces for better overall flow. I know both the intak and exhaust are under pressure when we are boosting. The intake path has lets say 12 lbs on the intake side... Thats 12 lbs of compressed air sitting on the closed intake valve. When that valve opens just think about the rush of air trying to fill the cylinder.... And the piston is actually sucking that charge in too.... That 12lbs of pressure never drops either... Its there as long as you see it on the boost gauge... You have a intake kinda like an endless tank dumping all the air you need into the engine..... Droping the compression ratio can only drop so low... then you have starting issues like Ken at DPS had... He was making so high hp numbers... So much that it pushed the crank out of the main webs... Thats stirpping the threads out of the block... Really impressive too... That 1000 hp idi talked about was a beast but.... It was not practical... The block twisted so much they needed rubber freeze plugs to run the beast.... Money builds a beast... Some here can build a nice realiable running engine... I personally want a realiable engine thats easy to repair anytime... I'm not going to bad mouth an psd or cummins.... I rspect them both but... I'm not interested in working on those engines. They are not what we run here. We can't compare ours to theres... Its just not a fair comparison. These idis are a rock solid work horse engine capiable of many hard driven miles with very little repais needed. We can replace an injector is around 5 to 10 minutes... No cummins or psd can do that but we are at a loss too... We inject fuel one time per combustion precess.... A duramax or psd will do it as much as 6 times per combustion cycle... Thats the benefit of electronic controls.. I can answer any questions asked of me as to how we can make these engines run better but.... I can't tell you what my hp is because I still have not dyno run my engine.... I know I can run 85 mph in double overdrive turning 1850 rpm and still have plenty of power to accellerate at will... BTW my final gear ratio in double overdrive is 1.96 running a set of stock 3.55 rear end gears on stock tires.... And I'm getting 19 mpg..... No boast... Just a friendly fact.....

 

[blown84]

For the first one, I doubt a drill will get you very far with the precups, they are made of hardened material. Off hand I can't tell you for sure what it is, but I'm thinking its inconel. Not to mention the hole in them isn't exactly round, its more oval shaped and its made that way for a reason.

For the second one, I've had to talk on the phone for hours on end with new members trying to help them fix issues they had resulting from posts just like the one he started with. I see it more and more on here and its getting old. I personally know several members here and there are a few I'd give the shirt off my back to if I knew it would help them out. But everyone that knows me knows that I will help anyone if they are of deserving character. But I don't appreciate people who try to sugarcoat insults and thats exactly what he did within his last post. Have I done anything other than try to answer your questions and give you real insight into the issue at hand? All I do is try to make everything clear so that nothing is assumed causing you more confusion or heartache in the future.

check it out dude, I will take this into PM's so we don't cludder this mans thread, but I only replied to your adamant post, and you became very confrontational, and even had the nerve to pull out the "******** flag" and tell me how I need to post, if I want to post again.

I proved you wrong, no if, ands, or buts about it. I made no **** statements, and I was not confrontational, only informational. If someone wants to know what I have done to my engine... look at my signature.

IMO, I did help the OP, by letting him know that your post was misinformed.

thank you both for the assistance and advice.

that said, i gave you both fair warnin, and you did bout like i expected you would, and tried to justify yourselves. i may be new here, but im not new to the forum world. i have over 13,000 posts on ford truck enthusiasts. i have no disrespect for either of you. but your beef is your beef, not mine. now, please, do not post in this thread any further.

if i have specific questions, i will PM either or both of you. you may post in any other threads i may create, but please, no more IN THIS THREAD. also, if i pissed you off, feel free to let me know. just not here.

thank you.

 

[blown84]

icanfixall, thank you very much for that. its gives me more ideas... and i do plan on doin a lot of portin and polishin on the heads. are 7.3 turbo heads pretty much identical to the 6.9 heads? my mind is to just pop a set off a 7.3, tune em up, and just swap the heads on the reassembly. thoughts?

 

[429idi]

Here is an equation I use to figure out outlet temperature.


Tout = Tin + Tin x [-1+(Pout/Pin)^0.263]
efficiency

Example: the inlet temperature is 70 deg F, the suction pressure is -0.5 psig (a slight vacuum), the discharge pressure is 19 psig, and the efficiency is 72%. What is the discharge temperature?

Tin= 70 deg F + 460 = 530 deg R
Pin= -0.5 psig + 14.7 = 14.2 psia
Pout= 19 psig + 14.7 = 33.7 psia
Pout/Pin = 33.7/14.2 = 2.373 (this is the compression ratio)

Tout = 530 + 530 x (-1+2.373^0.263 ) = 717.8 deg R - 460 = 257.8 deg F
0.72