You are thinking like I am...The 6.9 is in need of aftermarket support...I can engineer electrical and mechanical components but I will need an interest from the public, that is why I have been conversing with guys that own them...
Modifications for the 6.9/7.3IDI
- Thread starter airflo71
- Start date
You are thinking like I am...The 6.9 is in need of aftermarket support...I can engineer electrical and mechanical components but I will need an interest from the public, that is why I have been conversing with guys that own them...
flatlander
plays dirty when losing
The Ken who I'm referring to is From DPS and he had an idi that made 670 hp on an engine dyno. He managed to dump the bottom end out pulling a sled. The last time I talked to him about it, he said that that motor wouldn't be good for anything on the street as the egt's were over 1500 out of the hole and climbed. He also said that it wasn't worth it because a guy can make close to that power with a newer model easily and still drive it.
I still believe though, that if someone could make 325 reliably and make it known how or provide the service to get there, guys would buy it.
I still believe though, that if someone could make 325 reliably and make it known how or provide the service to get there, guys would buy it.
Keeping EGT's as cold as ice cubes is something that I have made my money doing , no problem there, what it sounds like is 2 much fuel is being delivered and the engine VE is trailing as RPM builds, rendering the extra fuel useless. Get VE up, and EGT's will go down...We can electronically control turbo's know so we can precisely match air to fuel...The problem with IDI, sounds like the heads suck,,,,so new heads are in order....the block needs to be re-thought out and strngthened...An actual turbo package needs to be developed....fuel delivery will have to be electronically controlled...the beauty of the beast will be delivered by the construction of new sub-systems...
Cat_Rebel
Does not compute
I think with the new 6.7 Cummins & the 6.4L Stroker & the like comming out with the new partical filters plus new truck payment & insureance more folks are looking for the older trucks. The prices on the 7.3L Powerstrokes (OBS & Superduty) has gone UP. Most people disreguard the old IDIs as useless & tend to ignore them meaning you can usually find them cheap.
If you can get one to run reliable as a Daily Driver with lower compression & a turbo you might just have something!
If you can get one to run reliable as a Daily Driver with lower compression & a turbo you might just have something!
funnyman06
Full Access Member
Man, if you could get 300 HP out this thing, that would make it so i could smoke my dads Hemi, hehehe. But that would be pretty impressive. Even if the kit cost 3-4K you cant get a truck for that much.
I parked next to an IDI the other day..I love the body style...a little boxy... a little 80's... but man all truck...She started it up and the cackle is not hard to distinguish....But who knows,anything is possible if somebody stays on track and works hard....
Dirtleg
Full Access Member
If you want to control fuel electronically on the IDI your best bet is to control the timing and advance curves of the IP. I know the later 6.5 GM Stanadyne pumps are done up in this manner. But now you are into engine management. I am sure you could use a megasquirt to control these parameters. It would really be a matter of adding all the necessary sensors to get the data required to do it properly. IAT, MAP, TPS, and a diesel version of a wide band O2. (just throwing that out there. does one exist?) Then it would just be a matter of modifying the IP to accept the electronics and fine tuning how they react to signal inputs.
You could get cam timing from the tach sensor and crank timing from the flywheel pretty easily right now.
The big issue that I see with these motors is cooling system capacity. They make more heat naturally than other motors. Now the number I've heard for water pump flow is 70 gpm (quote Icanfixall). I know there has got to be a maximum thermal transfer BTU for the coolant flow rate. Whether you can get all that flow to the parts of the motor that need it when they need it would have to be researched. A waterless (zero pressure)coolant may be the solution to a point but if it's heat transfer ratio isn't as good as a standard H2O glycol mix than eventually it will overheat/damage the engine as it cannot reject the heat fast enough. In that instance water would actually be preferable. Radiator sizing is not really an issue. You could mount a semi radiator in the bed if you wanted to. Put a big air scoop over the cab of the truck (like the old baja trucks) and run it.
And as far as cylinder head design goes has anyone (maybe Ken?) ever done a really good port and polish on a flow bench with a set of heads? Bigger valves and an improved intake design. ( Both touched on earlier I know ) I would think that a combination of straighter, bigger, equal length runners on the intake would be beneficial. You are correct on the need to improve the VE. I know of a BMW engine builder who can get a VE of better than 1 out of a 2 valve cylnder head. I am not sure where an IDIs' VE could be taken taken to but then again I don't know where it's starting either.
Getting the right turbo compressor and intercooling will also go a long way. Just keeping the air cool and dense will help EGTs' some.
I would really like to know more about Kens' motor. 670 hp is way more than I figured he'd gotten out of it. I am sure there is a safe point somewhere below that number. I'd be pleased as pie to be putting down 400 hp reliably. Hell, Dave might be close to there already. Sure would like to know.
So I must admit I am liking this discussion. Now, lets get to work on improving the valvetrain.
You could get cam timing from the tach sensor and crank timing from the flywheel pretty easily right now.
The big issue that I see with these motors is cooling system capacity. They make more heat naturally than other motors. Now the number I've heard for water pump flow is 70 gpm (quote Icanfixall). I know there has got to be a maximum thermal transfer BTU for the coolant flow rate. Whether you can get all that flow to the parts of the motor that need it when they need it would have to be researched. A waterless (zero pressure)coolant may be the solution to a point but if it's heat transfer ratio isn't as good as a standard H2O glycol mix than eventually it will overheat/damage the engine as it cannot reject the heat fast enough. In that instance water would actually be preferable. Radiator sizing is not really an issue. You could mount a semi radiator in the bed if you wanted to. Put a big air scoop over the cab of the truck (like the old baja trucks) and run it.
And as far as cylinder head design goes has anyone (maybe Ken?) ever done a really good port and polish on a flow bench with a set of heads? Bigger valves and an improved intake design. ( Both touched on earlier I know ) I would think that a combination of straighter, bigger, equal length runners on the intake would be beneficial. You are correct on the need to improve the VE. I know of a BMW engine builder who can get a VE of better than 1 out of a 2 valve cylnder head. I am not sure where an IDIs' VE could be taken taken to but then again I don't know where it's starting either.
Getting the right turbo compressor and intercooling will also go a long way. Just keeping the air cool and dense will help EGTs' some.
I would really like to know more about Kens' motor. 670 hp is way more than I figured he'd gotten out of it. I am sure there is a safe point somewhere below that number. I'd be pleased as pie to be putting down 400 hp reliably. Hell, Dave might be close to there already. Sure would like to know.
So I must admit I am liking this discussion. Now, lets get to work on improving the valvetrain.
Keep your ideas coming,all are good....as far as enginemanagement it would be as simple as looking nat a few parameters,,maybe as little as 2. THe darn OEM's overcomplicate the sub-systems of the engine to the point that they are doing more work than what is required....I always say work smarter and harder...The cooling system...is it sub-par from International? May have to design a new water-pump. More ideas the better. Yes they may be diminished interest in the 6.9 but look at the new surge in popularity of the 7.3L PSD.. Just a couple years ago it was considered a dead platform..Only time and the right aftermarket support...The 6.9 could be revived...
Keep working on it guys, I dont have the time money or resources to develop this stuff but I sure would buy it! I have been throwing around the idea of getting a 2nd gen PSD lately but I would love to keep my IDI if I can get some power out of it!
Legend says that Hypermax did a lot of this stuff back in the 80's when the 6.9 was on the market. They were started by a bunch of ex International Harvester employees, and supposedly pulled with a 6.9 powered something. They claimed over 600HP also. My guess is the expense of getting to that point prevented any marketing of their goodies other than the turbo. They did offer pistons for a time, and do still offer some internals. Click Here. Going to electronic engine control is probably the right idea, but I think the old school attraction of an engine buildup on a 6.9 may make that piece of find less acceptance. I seem to remember reading about a "superstroker" recently, where somebody took a PSD and ditched all the electronics and came up with a mechanically injected monster that was doing well on the pulling circuit.
sootman73
Registered User
ya agnem that is Double Overtime. it ditched the Huei system for a v-style pump off a 700 cu in international motor. two big honkin turbos that spin to make somewhere around 160psi boost! its in the 1500-1800 hp range! Diesel Power has a writeup of it in their mag. half the money for the motor went into the heads. stock block with a major girdle that ties into the mains, pan rails, and engine mounts.stock crank too! includes custom pistons, rods, and a billet cam.
of course all this is custom and they have more than one of course. also means expensive. i would see how if a bunch of us threw some support in we might actually get something though? i'm sure all of us could find more people interested in joining and helping with whatever they could.
of course all this is custom and they have more than one of course. also means expensive. i would see how if a bunch of us threw some support in we might actually get something though? i'm sure all of us could find more people interested in joining and helping with whatever they could.
YeaH, MECHANICAL PUMP MAY BE the way to go...I think what happens when really good ideas aren't used to the full extent, this case with Hypermax....You need a real good salesman to sell it...You need to burn interest into people's minds...I have seen some of the best products never make it to commercial,,,just becuase they had no one to sell it for them...With the 6.9L the case here///I would have to create a huge interest for the paltform...
tractorman86
Registered User
direct injection, low compression, forged pistons ceramic coated top and teflon skirt more oil volume, a good girdle maybe splayed 4bolt main caps would be stronger than regular. lots of fuel and lots of COLD air going into a lot of iron is the way to go. on the top end subject, would it be so hard to open up and straiten out the ports (intake and exhaust) a bit. also get some "equal length headers" made up something that will flow smoothly, there is a company making them for PSD's why cant they be made for ours besides the market hold up? and as mentioned the intake manifold is holding us up look at the BIG HOSS manifold kit banks makes for the d-max. that intake, exhaust, twin turbos and a BIG intercooler would be the way to go. especially with the mentioned upgraded valvetrain, billet cam(higher lift and duration), beefey rollerrockers, rollerlifters, chrommoly pushrods, stiffer springs holding bigger valves and there you go. too many dreams i know but damn that would be COOL!
Still catching alot of flack for bringing this up on other Powerstroke sites, but I can't leave it alone. It is starting to bother me now. I need to get my hands ona long block and do some dissecting. I want to do a build.
