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Looking for Some Sage Wisdom, 85 F250, 6.9IDI

Discussion in '6.9L IH & 7.3L IDI Diesels' started by Austin Centurion, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. 540milotalon

    540milotalon Registered User

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    I have a complete manual that is digitized I can email for 1985 and works well for other Model years.
     
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  2. Austin Centurion

    Austin Centurion Registered User

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    Thank you for that! I might take you up on it, if there's something I'm missing that isn't covered by either Hayne's manuals I have for this thing, or this awesome site: https://www.nickpisca.com/diesel/engine/7-3-idi-torque-specs-and-bolt-dimensions-with-images/

    I'm super pumped today! I pulled off the first cylinder head, everything looks freaking new in there aside from some light surface rust. No pitting, no major build up. I think piston #4 is the primary culprit. It was at the bottom of the bore in terms of rotation, and it seems to be holding most of the diesel that I've poured through this, the rest seem to have allowed the diesel to wash through them.

    I took some time on my lunch break to go nuts with a brass wire brush, some PB blaster, and a bunch of shop towels. The head surface on the block is amazing. The piston heads have no carbon build up. And the bores still show signs of original machining. This has definitely restored a lot of my faith. Just gotta give the same treatment to the head itself.

    I'm cleaning all the head bolts in diesel right now, and once it starts spinning on it's own, I'm going to order up a head gasket and lower gasket kit, rent a balancer puller from the Zone of Auto, and get a new water pump. I have a McMaster order waiting in limbo for most of the bolts, like exhaust manifold and such.

    Here's a pic from early in the process, I actually remembered to take one this time. https://www.oilburners.net/media/cleaningupnicely.794/

    Still need to vacuum the valley and and bores out, plus the bolt holes and coolant passages. Before I put it back together, I'm gonna pour some Mystery Oil through the lifters and coat the bores. Then drain the oil and filter out.

    We're supposed to get rain here at some point over the next few days, which will slow progress. But, I'm gonna tarp off the nose to prevent any further water intrusion.

    What do you guys think so far? Is she worthy?
     
  3. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    My sarcastic answer is "Of course it is. It's an IDI!" The real answer is that it sounds like you've got a pretty good engine once you free it up. The tarp is an excellent idea. I've done that myself from time to time. I feel that the best way to clean up the head bolts is by using a wire wheel on a bench grinder if you have access to one.
     
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  4. Austin Centurion

    Austin Centurion Registered User

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    Got it, zip tie the drill trigger and go to town. :Thumbs Up

    I'll get a picture tomorrow of how ridiculous this thing looks with this thing covering the front end and like 10 bungee cords holding the thing down and preventing Oklahoma from stealing it with the wind.

    Spent a good hour or 2 cleaning the head up. Got it clean enough to eat off of. But a problem has developed, and I'll take the blame on this one. The glow plug controller basically welded itself to the head, after some struggling and frustration the thing came out in pieces and has left a aluminum donut in the head. It looks like a combination of age and some kind of sealant holding it in. I'm stumped on how to get this thing out now. I already tried drilling most of it out and then attempting to break the remainder out, but didn't get too aggressive, I didn't want to damage the threads in the head itself. Should I just get a larger drill bit and then clean the threads up with a tap after? I couldn't seem to find the thread size after some jazz hands on the Google.

    But, I don't feel bad about the shattering the controller to pieces, there was plenty of corrosion all over the internal electronics, so it probably wasn't working at 100% anymore. I'm just glad replacements aren't too expensive.

    If you're wanting a good laugh to end/start your day, I took a shower in diesel today. When I got all the head bolts loose on the passenger side, I remembered that I forgot to disconnect the manifold from the Y-pipe. So I crawled back under to try and get it really quick. As soon as I applied torque to the first one, it lifted the head ever so slightly and all the diesel that I was using to flood the cylinders came pouring out. Like a golden shower, only R. Kelly wasn't around.
     
  5. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    Those controllers do like to break when you try to remove them. I believe that the thread pitch is 1/2" NPT. When I tarped my engine, I put the tarp right on top of my engine. then I could close the hood over it. If the wind is going to blow hard, then I'd lay a chain over the top of the tarp so that there's no chance that it will blow off of my engine.
     
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  6. Austin Centurion

    Austin Centurion Registered User

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    Okay, got a little more progress done today, now that the weather has cleared up. Not much. Mostly just housekeeping, vacuuming crud and diesel out of the cylinders and valley. Cleaned the intake manifold up a little bit, mainly the gasket and bolt surfaces.

    I have been on the hunt for an okay core support for a little while, one that isn't missing the driver side of the body mount (that's why she looks like she's had a stroke and the driver side), body mount on the frame is still there, minus hardware, bushings, etc. So I'm still trying to find one of those that'll work for this thing. If anyone is willing to part with one that doesn't have holes/missing pieces, just let me know.

    I do need a bit of advice. I had to pull the entirety of the mechanical lift pump out, with the line from pump to filter attached. When I was pulling it, there's some kind of sensor or something built into that pipe, and the connector for it just fell apart. After wrenching, found out that the line was seized to the mechanical pump. So, can I just run some new fittings and hose between this pump and the filter housing? I know it's usually done when going to an electric pump anyway. I just can't figure out what that sensor is for. I'm probably not Googling the right thing.

    Anywho, things are going smoothly, McMaster order showed up today with all the new hardware, just waiting on some gaskets from RockAuto and Autozone. Going to pull the passenger head tomorrow and finish clean up operations. Then it's all about manually persuading the engine to turn again, with my two friends Estwing and PB B'laster. Once that's going, the plan is still to drain the oil, replace the oil pan gasket, pull the balancer, reset timing, new gaskets and hardware for the front, then put all the rest back together. That last major thing that I think I need is a new set of injectors. Just can't afford those yet.

    After she's moving under her own power, I'm going to do a full overhaul on the brakes and suspension. But that's some time away.

    Also, here's my junk camouflage/water repellent tactic.
    https://www.oilburners.net/media/disappearing-junk.797/
     
  7. TahoeTom

    TahoeTom Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I believe the line from the lift pump has a heating element integrated. I just looked at mine and the wire is plugged into the glow plug harness just behind the thermostat. I have no idea if it is necessary.
     
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  8. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    Correct and it's not required. Most of them probably don't even attempt to work after all of these years.
     
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  9. Austin Centurion

    Austin Centurion Registered User

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    Awesome, it's going in the junk pile then. Going to run some 3/8 hose from lift to filter housing. Thanks to RockAuto, I at least know that it's a 5/8 inverted flare fitting off of the pump. And I think I saw elsewhere that it's a 1/4 NPT off the filter housing.

    I did quite a bit of work today, and feel hopeful but I'm still a little skeptical. I wish I had a local buddy to wrench with and help me with some of these things. It gets a little daunting having to do most of this myself. I finally pulled the passenger head today. Mostly by myself, but had my roommate help me carry it into the garage for cleanup. Finally found the problem child of cylinders. Cylinder 7. Looks like there was some dirt and debris in there. I'm thinking it was another mud dauber nest, seeing as I've found quite a few around this truck already. (Mud daubers are these hateful little wasp-like a-holes that build their nests in the ground or by compacting Oklahoma clay on hard surfaces).

    Every other cylinder looks great, except for this one, some light pitting in the upper wall, above the first ring. It doesn't look like it would interfere with anything, but I'm probably wrong. I got some movement out of the engine today, after soaking the cylinders with PB Blaster for 2 days. Just a couple degrees on the crank, with a soft clunk when rocking back and forth on the crank pulley. I also now need a new dipstick tube, mine came apart when trying to pull it out of the block in order to pull the head. I think I found the part here, but can't determine which one I need: https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/oem-...&extra2=4-Speed Maunal Transmission&filter=()

    If it comes down to needing a new engine core/long block, I've been able to find a few 7.3s through Ebay, FB Marketplace (I don't have a truck to go and retrieve and engine, just my Mustang and girlfriend's Tiguan) and Car-Part, I just lack the space, help, and tools to perform an engine swap by myself, so it would most likely need to be something done by a shop, and I don't know if I could afford shop labor. If that's the case, I might let this whole thing go. I've been thinking on it a lot this past day or 2, and it's been troubling me a lot. I mean, the whole reason I bought this was to help with my anxiety and depression, which I get my kicks by wrenching on things and fixing/improving things. It reminds me of better times, when I would work on cars with my grandfather, and then later with friends in high school. (A fond memory of my buddy rolling up to my house in his Honda back when I was a sophomore in HS, "Get in loser, I need someone to help me change a head gasket on my Jeep") Anywho, thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. :thanks:
     
  10. Austin Centurion

    Austin Centurion Registered User

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    I'm sorry about the lack of activity and progress here. Not much has been done. After finding the damage to cylinder 7, I've been trying to get in touch with local machine shops to see about getting the shortblock fixed up with new pistons and rings, so I can at least make use of the parts that I already have. Unfortunately, most have turned me away, while others just haven't contacted me back. So at this point I'm probably going to be pulling the engine shortblock and trans to replace it with another used engine. I've found 2 options that fit my needs/budget via Ebay.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/133411574709 ( I know I'll need to order just head gaskets alone to go with the rest of my kit, and I know the injection pump isn't exactly the same, but maybe just turn up the 6.9 pump I already have(?))

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/223807954293 (contacted seller, they're having issues with shipping right now, so would probably have to wait for this one)

    There were a few other options that I've found, through Car-Part, but getting some places to call me back has been like pulling teeth, still trying though.

    In the meantime, I've been wire-wheeling random parts and hitting some of them with some Rustoleum rattle can paint. At this point, I haven't moved forward with anything else, as I'm just trying to get this thing back to the point where it will move under it's own power.

    I know buying a random engine core is kind-of a risky gamble, but when I eventually find a replacement core, I plan to do a crude rebuild (rings, (maybe bearings), dingleball hone, gaskets, seals, clutch, etc.) in my garage, before having my roommates help me push it down the driveway to drop it into the truck.

    And last but not least, you were all right and I should have listened. I should have just pulled then engine in the first place. Now I'm probably going to have to plop the heads and intake back on, just to have some way to lift the thing out. I'll take this as a learning experience so I don't make that mistake again. This isn't a small block where you can simply change head gaskets in an afternoon while sitting on the fender.
     
  11. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    Since you're N/A, you could use your 6.9 IP on the 7.3 and be just fine. Eventually, if you want a turbo, then it would be time to upgrade the IP. I can see that the 6.9 doesn't have an oil cooler, but even if it did, you would want to reseal it before installing the engine (same goes for the 7.3). Just like the engine, it's MUCH easier to reseal the oil cooler with the engine out of the truck. You don't have to put the heads back on in order to pull the engine. If you can make something to go through your puller chain, just run a couple of 7/16" bolts into the head bolt holes in the block. If your chain has big enough links for those bolts to go through, all the much better. You will be fine as long as your bolts don't stick up very far above the deck surfaces. Long bolts will probably bend. Yes. I have had to do this with an IDI before so I know that it works. What part of Oklahoma are you in? I may have a rear end with 3.55 gears to get rid of in the next few months. That could be another option other than the ZF5. Or you could do both if you want to.
     
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  12. Austin Centurion

    Austin Centurion Registered User

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    I ended up pulling the trigger on the 7.3. After looking around and weighing the options, it seemed like the better bet. I'm going to go to Harbor Freight tomorrow and grab a hoist and stand. I called and asked some questions to get the general idea of the condition, they said it was pulled from a running Van (so at least it's not seized), but would most likely need some rebuild work to be running properly again.

    That's all fine with me, as soon as it gets here, I'm going to toss it on a stand and get cracking on tearing it down. Once I get the general idea of the condition, I'll start ordering parts. I've learned my lesson on that with this truck already. I'm just glad to have learned so much knowledge through this site, like the fact that the big ole' 1/2" 7.3 head bolts are reusable, my injection pump will work for the 7.3 and I'll be able to swap over my flywheel and clutch so I don't have to dig for more parts (probably going to replace the clutch anyway while it's out).

    And I already have the bottom end gasket kit, so I'll throw new front and rear main seals, and change out the o-rings and gaskets on the oil cooler. I also plan to change out the shifter pins and throw some fresh juice in the T19. When it moves under it's own steam, I'll back it up into the garage so I can change the diff fluid.

    I ordered this load leveler from Amazon that I think will work perfectly for my use case. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PX4YCI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And I measured the factory head bolts and I found that thread length is right at 1-3/4" so I ordered some Grade 8 7/16-14 bolts that will work, so I can bolt the L-brackets from the leveler right on and pull it out with the trans.

    I'm in Edmond, OK. Just like you're in Edmond, KS. LOL I do want to put 3.55's in my Dana 70 eventually, as well as do the ZF5 swap. But after this engine rebuild, I'm gonna take it slow for a little while to pay some things off.

    I do have a date at Pull-a-Part OKC tomorrow, because this weekend's special is Wheels and Tires are $5 each. So I'm gonna try to find at least one decent tire to replace the one that blew out on the back. If I'm extra lucky, I'll find a decent 8-lug wheel to have a spare, but that isn't my main goal.
     
  13. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    Yep. Been there too.

    000_0043.jpg
     
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  14. Austin Centurion

    Austin Centurion Registered User

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    Okay, so I know I might be jumping the gun on this one, but, would it be more beneficial to use the serpentine front drive from the 7.3, over the V-belt drive system from my 6.9. I already planned on replacing the alternator (found a reman tag, but don't know how old, and I don't trust it) and power steering pump (pretty much gone, seals look like they've been leaking for a minute). At that point, I wouldn't be too far off from replacing the vacuum pump as well. The core engine already has all the bracketry for the serpentine system, minus the PS pump, alternator and V pump. Water pump pulley is there (I have a new water pump in the box on my shelf of parts), and so is the crank pulley.

    Here is a picture of the engine that is on its way too me, https://www.oilburners.net/media/7-3-to-replace-the-6-9.810/

    At that point, I could get a 1-wire alternator like this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-577681

    And a PS pump: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mof-stp48rm (doesn't have to be this one, probably a reman unit from RockAuto) plus the pulley.

    From what I can tell, the pumps didn't really change much, and it looks like an early pump from my truck would bolt right into the same bracket on the 7.3 (comparing pictures on RockAuto from an 85 power steering pump to a 94 power steering pump. And the positioning doesn't look far off enough that it would cause issues with the hoses.

    Or, at the end of the day, should I ditch the serp system on the 7.3, keep my v-belts, and just replace the accessories with ones meant for v-belts. Although I do plan to run an upgraded alternator.
     
  15. snicklas

    snicklas 6.0 and Loving It!! Staff Member

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    My personal opinion... I love serpentine belts.... but NOT on an IDI

    I've owned both. I had an A/C Pump lock up on a Serpentine truck, and I had a poorly positioned block heater cord go through a V-Belt....

    The Serpentine truck was at home in my driveway, when it was warm out and daylight. It took maybe 10 minutes to pull the compressor and replace it with the "A/C Delete Idler Pulley" and at least 2 HOURS to get that (^^%$##^&#&[email protected]%##*) belt back on, with help..... and was under and back on top, and back again a dozen or more times....

    The V-Belt truck was sitting at my sons place of employment, it the cold (like snow on the ground cold), at night and parked in a huge puddle (like the size of the truck, puddle). From tools out of the car, to tools back in the car was ~30 minutes, by myself, all from the top.....

    For me V-Belts on an IDI... all my other vehicles have a serpentine belt and I wouldn't have it any other way.......
     
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